1w or 35w radio on certain small sites?

[Darren Clemons]

I have a Triumph 1M base, a Triupmph LS rover with a HPT435BT radio. On jobs of any size and terrain changes we always set up the 35w radio - better to be safe than sorry. On small jobs we usually just use the internal 1w on the 1M. I was on a small 4 acre site a couple weeks ago and didn't set up the 35w. The site was complete heavy canopy and the LS seemed to struggle much more than usual. My question is this, on a site that small where I'm at a maximum of 700' from my base does the 35w radio make that much of a difference? I realize the radio has no impact on the multi path the LS is getting while in the canopy, but it does transmit the corrections through the canopy. If I'm only a short distance away and receiving complete 100% radio (through the 1w) is there any added benefit for the added power of the 35w radio?

 

[Nate The Surveyor]

I'm very curious to the final answer to your question. I don't know the full answer. BUT it SEEMS to me that when the HZ dial on the LS says an even clean 5 hz, things go way better. When it fluctuates, between 0, 1, 1.5, 5, 5.5, 2.4 etc, then things work alot slower. So, you may be on to something. I don't know, but it is a POINT OF FOCUS for me.

BTW, how does the T-1 M get it's correction to the radio? Wire? Bluetooth? or via the 1 watt radio?

The Javad equipment is a game changer.

N

 

[Adam]

I have a Triumph 1M base, a Triupmph LS rover with a HPT435BT radio. On jobs of any size and terrain changes we always set up the 35w radio - better to be safe than sorry. On small jobs we usually just use the internal 1w on the 1M. I was on a small 4 acre site a couple weeks ago and didn't set up the 35w. The site was complete heavy canopy and the LS seemed to struggle much more than usual. My question is this, on a site that small where I'm at a maximum of 700' from my base does the 35w radio make that much of a difference? I realize the radio has no impact on the multi path the LS is getting while in the canopy, but it does transmit the corrections through the canopy. If I'm only a short distance away and receiving complete 100% radio (through the 1w) is there any added benefit for the added power of the 35w radio?

Vegetation surely weakens the signal as it passes thru it, I can't really answer you though. I have the 35watt and use the internet TCP most of the time.

 

[Matt Johnson]

The transmitting radio transmits a modulated digital bit stream and the receiving radio (internal LS radio) then demodulates that signal into a bit stream. If the link quality is 100% then it means 100% of the digital signal is being received and demodulated by LS. Increasing the transmitting radio output power will not provide any increased RTK performance when the link quality is already 100%.

 

[Darren Clemons]

I'm very curious to the final answer to your question. I don't know the full answer. BUT it SEEMS to me that when the HZ dial on the LS says an even clean 5 hz, things go way better. When it fluctuates, between 0, 1, 1.5, 5, 5.5, 2.4 etc, then things work alot slower. So, you may be on to something. I don't know, but it is a POINT OF FOCUS for me.

BTW, how does the T-1 M get it's correction to the radio? Wire? Bluetooth? or via the 1 watt radio?

The Javad equipment is a game changer.

N

You are absolutely right about the Hz reading Nate. And it seems that that stays much more consistent at an even 5 when the 35w is being used. However, based on Matt's explanation it must not be the difference between 1w or 35w. Of course, the green 100% "ok" on the collect screen doesn't always mean it's at 100%. It sometimes may be less once that green ok is clicked to look at the settings.

Javad is certainly changing the game. We bought our first system almost a year ago and our entire planning of resources to dedicate to field/office time have completely changed. Things such as marking lines through extreme tough environments used to be the most dreaded thing we did. With this, it's completely different. The CDF mode gets you so close, usually inside 2',and once a couple definite points are established beast mode makes it so fast to stay online. Couldn't imagine using anything else now!!

 

[Matt Johnson]

I think up and down fluctuations from 5.0 Hz RTK rate seen in the Action screen are caused by varying time periods of the data link latency. At 5 Hz the radio is being pushed close to its limits and the transmission rate isn't completely steady. For example, one second the radio may transmit 4 corrections and then the next it transmits 6.

 

[David M. Simolo]

[QUOTE="The CDF mode gets you so close, usually inside 2',and once a couple definite points are established beast mode makes it so fast to stay online.![/QUOTE]

Off the top of my head I am not sure what the CDF mode is

 

[Darren Clemons]

Off the top of my head I am not sure what the CDF mode is[/QUOTE]

Started to try and explain, but remembered seeing something here several months back...

https://support.javad.com/index.php?threads/new-feature-cdf-code-float.1381/

If in an extremely rough area you can just turn off your radio and work strictly with this solution, just depends on what you're doing. Not close enough to locate boundary of course, but sometimes great for recon or marking rough points online in heavy woods.

 

[David M. Simolo]

Thanks Darren. At some point I'll have to try to evaluate the possible merits of that.

 

[Darren Clemons]

The way to check/set that CDF is on has changed in the new updates. It's now setup/edit(under general group)/then advanced/GNSS/SBAS. If you're running the pre release I think it's defaulted to be on.

 

[toivo1037]

Darren,
From my experience, not sure about others, the 35w on a small site actually hurts you very much. I use a pair of T1Ms, and have trouble getting any fix at all when too close to the base radio. Doing a test - line of sight I was not able to get a lock using the 35w radio at 1500 feet. with the 1w, anything under 30 feet I can't get a lock. I have talked to a couple people about it, but no definite answers, except the receiver must be being overpowered by the radio. Now I have not updated firmware since last summer, and have not yet tried beast mode, maybe those things will chance the situation, but for me, vegetation or no, if I am working under a mile from the base, I use 1 watt, if over 1/2 mile, and farther, then I go 35.

 

[Matt Johnson]

Yes, the transmitting radio can overpower the receiving radio if the output power is too when the radios are close together. The UHF icon will be displayed with red bars in this situation.

 

[Darren Clemons]

Thanks for the response Toivo.
I haven't had any problems with the base radio overpowering the receiving radio to the extent I can't acquire a fix - except maybe at 10-15' away. If I'm that close then it does, as Matt says, turn the UHF icon red. I have done 100 acres with only the 1w, but it was a flat cornfield. I've also lost the 1w completely on a 7 acre site. Some of the terrain I'm in, I can be working on a 7 acre site that may drop down 150'+ in elevation to the bottom of a drain or creek. With this scenario, the 1w just won't get there, it's all about terrain.