Concerns about Galileo and Beidou

Clay Davidson

Active Member
I can get about 30% to 40 % more work done in the winter. That increases my profits the same percentage. If Galileo and Beidou can increase production in the summer, it would be a MAJOR game changer.

I had posted here while back about its been a long 2 months (i was beeing sarcastic)......now it's been a year since I heard 2 months.

I really hope this summer I have Galileo and Beidou to use. I'm a 1 man operation in the field and my wife helps in the office.

I've been waiting for Galileo since it was supposed to be a full constellation back in 07 (i think this year is right), this got delayed obviously.

"Long sigh" its been a long wait.......

I'm happy with the way the LS i running with no leaves. I just hope we have the extra satelites before the leaves come out.

Any idea of a REALISTIC time frame of when we will be able to use Galileo and Beidou?
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
I can get about 30% to 40 % more work done in the winter. That increases my profits the same percentage. If Galileo and Beidou can increase production in the summer, it would be a MAJOR game changer.

I had posted here while back about its been a long 2 months (i was beeing sarcastic)......now it's been a year since I heard 2 months.

I really hope this summer I have Galileo and Beidou to use. I'm a 1 man operation in the field and my wife helps in the office.

I've been waiting for Galileo since it was supposed to be a full constellation back in 07 (i think this year is right), this got delayed obviously.

"Long sigh" its been a long wait.......

I'm happy with the way the LS i running with no leaves. I just hope we have the extra satelites before the leaves come out.

Any idea of a REALISTIC time frame of when we will be able to use Galileo and Beidou?
I don't know the time frame answer but Javad told us that from the tests by the Moscow team that Galileo does help. To what extent I am not sure, but it does help. So, that is good news!
 

Joe Paulin

Active Member
I have been wanting to say something for sometime now. There has been a lot of concerns voiced (rather bluntly I think) about the delayed implementation of the Triumph LS using the Galileo constellation in its RTK solution. I understand everyone's needs/wants (mine included), but I also don't underestimate the work going on in the background to get this done. Let's take a minute to remember the unique Javad experience: for the first time we as Surveyors have a direct, open line of communication with the developers of surveying technology. And they listen to us. And get it done. We all bought Javad gear as is at the time of purchase with no Galileo solutions, so whenever the team does release the implementation, it's like getting a free lunch. Think of all the improvements that have come out since the initial release, all free of charge. Most other manufacturers provide updates to their equipment/software with big price tags attached. Want to "enable" the other constellations?? Better be prepared to open your wallet with other brands. Let's not forget this. Javad gear is cutting edge technology and with that comes needed development time. Sometimes I think we lose track of this.

Kudos to the Javad Team, you all are crushing it!!
 
Thanks for the update and allowing us to be apart of the journey. The excitement of new and improved equipment is one of the many things that makes our job interesting. The anticipation of trying out the new update in the summer has my mouth watering. I have had the privilege of being apart of 2 of the best equipment & software companies in the business (Javad & Microsurvey). Both who listen and allow user participation and makes you feel as though we have a small part in the development of the end product. Thanks again
 

Javad

Administrator
Staff member
5PLS
I really love you all surveyors. We delayed to make sure that Galileo really helps while Galileo improving their signals. There was no big rush, because what we already had was working good for you. So, we need to test it ourselves and with our PLS team, not to make interruption in your works.
Thank you all for your kinds words. Your words and encouragements have been giving me energy and at the same time kicking my butt to work harder.
Keep on kicking!
Love you all.
 

Randy Hambright

New Member
I think I heard that Galileo is going to be a charged service once the bugs are worked out and we can incorporate it into the mix.
Now that is very surprising and troubling since it was never mentioned in any conversation when I was in the process of buying this system.
At the very least, I think that us buyers should have something like a 6 month test trail or so to see if we can even see a difference
in day to day surveying. But still disturbed at discovering having to pay!
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
It depends on the receiver. The Triumph LS has them at no charge. T1M has a one time fee.
 

Matthew D. Sibole

Well-Known Member
5PLS
I don’t know where you heard that it was going to be a charged service? If you are talking about it being a charge from Javad it is not a charged service. There will be a charge to turn Galileo and Beidou on in certain receivers but it is a one time charge. It is not a monthly or yearly charge to use the constellations.

Like Adam said, the Triumph 1M has the capability to use them but will be an additional fee. The Triumph 2 is not capable. The Triumph LS it comes standard with no fee. It just depends on your configuration.
 

Nate The Surveyor

Well-Known Member
To clarify, at one time, in the past, there was talk about charging for certain GPS signals. It was talk, from long time ago. That did not evolve into reality, for any of the signals we use. For gps. To watch certain satellite TV signals, there is some sort of pay mechanism. I don't do TV, so I'm not up on it. But I do get offers in the mail quite often.
Javad, from day one, (for my involvement) has said there would be a charge (one time) for upgrades, for certain units.
N
 

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
I think I heard that Galileo is going to be a charged service once the bugs are worked out and we can incorporate it into the mix.
Now that is very surprising and troubling since it was never mentioned in any conversation when I was in the process of buying this system.
At the very least, I think that us buyers should have something like a 6 month test trail or so to see if we can even see a difference
in day to day surveying. But still disturbed at discovering having to pay!
I'm grieved you feel troubled from our interactions, Randy. Truly. As a salesman I've worked extremely hard to be up front and honest with all of my customers and potential customers. I've worked hard to support you throughout your experience with Javad because I'm a surveyor like you and I value honesty and attentive support. For some of my potential customers, I spent time explaining the relative benefits of the Triumph-1M base over the Triumph-2. As others have mentioned, the Triumph-2 cannot physically track Beidou and has very limited Galileo capability (although it is not even offered as an option because it is so limited). The Triumph-1M can track them all, but comes standard with tracking GPS and Glonass. Since we've been working to offer GPS+Glonass+Galileo+Beidou RTK, I've been directing my customers to the Triumph-1M so that they will be prepared for that possibility. I only recommend the Triumph-2 to customers who are price conscientious, as the Triumph-2 is a bit less expensive than the Triumph-1M. To those who buy the Triumph-1M, I do not recommend buying the options for Galileo and Beidou because I do not yet know what, if any, benefit it will actually have to RTK solutions, and the purchase will definitely not do any good to you until the RTK engines use those signals. The only customers I recommend considering purchasing those options on the Triumph-1M are those who are financing, as they may want to take the risk and buy the signals today so that it can be included in their financing.

I did not go into those details with you because when you called me, you asked me to put together a system for you. I asked about your typical work, as I do for all of my customers, and determined that a Triumph-LS, Triumph-1M and HPT435BT radio would be the best route for you. We've known each other for the better part of 20 years. I would not betray our friendship by trying to deceive you and I thought at the time you were working from my knowledge of the equipment to put together the best system for your needs. Because of that, I did not go into the minutiae of the contingencies involved in the future of Galileo and Beidou. I believe you've been pretty happy with your system. When you have been disappointed with the system, I've gone to great lengths to support you to make things right, which I will continue to do. I do regret not taking the time to explain this all to you before, if only because you feel that I was less than honest with you.

I appreciate you and your friendship. Again, I can only express that I am grieved that you feel that I have been anything less than honest with you. We're still early in the stages of testing what is now a functional GPS+Glonass+Galileo+Beidou RTK engine. We're still way too soon in the process to demonstrate whether it will provide improvements in challenging environments or not. Once we have the engines optimized and data comparing the two versions GG-only and GGGB, we'll be sharing our results. If the results are promising, I'll probably go on the road to existing customers to demonstrate the two in challenging environments so that customers can make up their own minds. We've discussed the possibility of short-term trial OAFs to allow Triumph-1M's to track Galileo and Beidou, but no decisions have been made yet. I'm sure it will largely depend on whether the additional signals prove effective or not.

As always, if you have any questions, you are always free to call, text or email me.

Shawn
 

Sdrake14

Active Member
I'm grieved you feel troubled from our interactions, Randy. Truly. As a salesman I've worked extremely hard to be up front and honest with all of my customers and potential customers. I've worked hard to support you throughout your experience with Javad because I'm a surveyor like you and I value honesty and attentive support. For some of my potential customers, I spent time explaining the relative benefits of the Triumph-1M base over the Triumph-2. As others have mentioned, the Triumph-2 cannot physically track Beidou and has very limited Galileo capability (although it is not even offered as an option because it is so limited). The Triumph-1M can track them all, but comes standard with tracking GPS and Glonass. Since we've been working to offer GPS+Glonass+Galileo+Beidou RTK, I've been directing my customers to the Triumph-1M so that they will be prepared for that possibility. I only recommend the Triumph-2 to customers who are price conscientious, as the Triumph-2 is a bit less expensive than the Triumph-1M. To those who buy the Triumph-1M, I do not recommend buying the options for Galileo and Beidou because I do not yet know what, if any, benefit it will actually have to RTK solutions, and the purchase will definitely not do any good to you until the RTK engines use those signals. The only customers I recommend considering purchasing those options on the Triumph-1M are those who are financing, as they may want to take the risk and buy the signals today so that it can be included in their financing.

I did not go into those details with you because when you called me, you asked me to put together a system for you. I asked about your typical work, as I do for all of my customers, and determined that a Triumph-LS, Triumph-1M and HPT435BT radio would be the best route for you. We've known each other for the better part of 20 years. I would not betray our friendship by trying to deceive you and I thought at the time you were working from my knowledge of the equipment to put together the best system for your needs. Because of that, I did not go into the minutiae of the contingencies involved in the future of Galileo and Beidou. I believe you've been pretty happy with your system. When you have been disappointed with the system, I've gone to great lengths to support you to make things right, which I will continue to do. I do regret not taking the time to explain this all to you before, if only because you feel that I was less than honest with you.

I appreciate you and your friendship. Again, I can only express that I am grieved that you feel that I have been anything less than honest with you. We're still early in the stages of testing what is now a functional GPS+Glonass+Galileo+Beidou RTK engine. We're still way too soon in the process to demonstrate whether it will provide improvements in challenging environments or not. Once we have the engines optimized and data comparing the two versions GG-only and GGGB, we'll be sharing our results. If the results are promising, I'll probably go on the road to existing customers to demonstrate the two in challenging environments so that customers can make up their own minds. We've discussed the possibility of short-term trial OAFs to allow Triumph-1M's to track Galileo and Beidou, but no decisions have been made yet. I'm sure it will largely depend on whether the additional signals prove effective or not.

As always, if you have any questions, you are always free to call, text or email me.

Shawn
well that helps it make more sense to me. thanks Shawn. (I can't wait for the T3......)
 
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