Javad T-3

Duane Frymire

Active Member
What will be the benefit of the new chip/board? Will this be a requirement to take full advantage of the additional constellations available with the T-3 versus the T-2 base? As far as the possibility of upgrading an existing LS - is there a certain serial number at which this is or isn't an option and will an upgrade give the same power and function as a new LS with the new chip/board? From the current reports it sounds like an upgrade from the T-2 base is a no brainer for those of us working primarily in the woods and March isn't far away if additional benefits are forthcoming.
My understanding is you will see significant difference. Some of the white papers/studies (not javadspecific) I've seen explain why it takes much more computing power to efficiently/best utilize all constellations in a solution.
 

Javad

Administrator
Staff member
JAVAD GNSS
5PLS
What will be the benefit of the new chip/board? Will this be a requirement to take full advantage of the additional constellations available with the T-3 versus the T-2 base? As far as the possibility of upgrading an existing LS - is there a certain serial number at which this is or isn't an option and will an upgrade give the same power and function as a new LS with the new chip/board? From the current reports it sounds like an upgrade from the T-2 base is a no brainer for those of us working primarily in the woods and March isn't far away if additional benefits are forthcoming.

Main advantage is better signal processing in a "wide-band" approach and having more power to run more RTK engines in parallel. We may run all RTK engine options in parallel, rather than you select each option. If you are happy with what you have, you don't need to upgrade.
 

Sean Joyce

Well-Known Member
Just to be clear to anyone reading this thread, the compatibility issue that Ralph is experiencing with his Triumph-LS and Triumph-3 is related to the radios. His Triumph-LS has a frequency hopping spread spectrum (FHSS) and his new Triumph-3 has a UHF radio. The solution is to install a "two kings" radio in the Triumph-LS that can be set to FHSS or UHF, this way he can work with his existing equipment and his new base.

For the vast majority of customers, there will be no compatibility issue between the new Triumph-3 and existing Triumph-LS receivers.


Shawn;
I hope you are not saying that those with SS L.S. have to send their units in.
The ad for the T3 clearly says UHF and SS.
People purchased SS to avoid the FCC.
If they already have SS it would seem they should just order a T3 with SS.
 

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Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
Shawn;
I hope you are not saying that those with SS L.S. have to send their units in.
The ad for the T3 clearly says UHF and SS.
People purchased SS to avoid the FCC.
If they already have SS it would seem they should just order a T3 with SS.
SS will work as long as the base and rover have SS radios. Ralph's didn't in this case.
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
I've been told that there is no FHSS option for the Triumph 3.
Oh, I didn't realize that Shawn. I thought they were going to swap the radio in Ralph's T3. Sorry for the mistake. You are correct, it isn't listed as an option on the webpage.
 

Nate The Surveyor

Well-Known Member
I'm a little confused. Will the T-3 be available with Spread Spectrum radio? But NOT Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum?
I'm trying to figure out a way to configure it, for MAXIMUM range, in mountains, valleys, trees, ravines, and such.
I was thinking of some sort of mechanism, to extract maximum range from the base, and maximum range from a repeater.
If you've ever goofed around with 5 clicks, in the trees, at the edge of range, over 20 minutes, you would have my mindset.
Maybe a duplex radio, or triplex radio.
One that can receive, and transmit simultaneously, on different radio frequencies, and different radio types.
Communication dependence drives this way of thinking.
Nate
 

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
What updates/changes must be made to LS00435 in order to take full advantage of Galileo, Beidou if we purchase a T3? If the LS radio is changed/altered to accomodate the T3 will we still have radio communication with T2 00266?
Would purchase of T1M be better option?

I don't have access to your setup. What radio are you using with your Triumph 2?
 

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
I'm a little confused. Will the T-3 be available with Spread Spectrum radio? But NOT Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum?
I'm trying to figure out a way to configure it, for MAXIMUM range, in mountains, valleys, trees, ravines, and such.
I was thinking of some sort of mechanism, to extract maximum range from the base, and maximum range from a repeater.
If you've ever goofed around with 5 clicks, in the trees, at the edge of range, over 20 minutes, you would have my mindset.
Maybe a duplex radio, or triplex radio.
One that can receive, and transmit simultaneously, on different radio frequencies, and different radio types.
Communication dependence drives this way of thinking.
Nate

FHSS is the full name of spread spectrum. They're the same thing. I don't see it helping you in your situation.
 
Ok, I have had the triumph 3 for a week now and have used it in a variety of
environments. I lost the first day due to radio issues, and have not had any
luck with using my 35 watt as a repeater. More on that shortly.
The first day was in mixed pines and hardwoods following a traverse I had
done the week before with my T-2 as a base. There was no noticeable improvement
in locations. All the spots that had verified before, verified again, and
the static points had to be staticed again. All the points were less that a
tenth of where the initial traverse showed them. The second day was working
on a site we had control on from 20 years ago and that I had worked on last
summer. This site was more Eastern Red Cedar, arboe vitae and mixed hardwoods.
There was a significant increase in verified fixes here, but given the time that
had elapsed from last summer, I am not sure if it is contributable to the additional
constellations or some other factor. The vectors from the old corners to the
new locations were again less than a tenth. The third day in the field saw
mostly cut over with in a river bottom following another old job. Most of the
locations verified, except for a couple. There was no noticeable difference
in predicting which verified and which didn't, so I took pictures if anyone
wants to review them. Again the closure to the old work as less than a tenth.
So location accuracy is not a problem.

General observations regarding the Triumph 3.
1. The housing and mounting screw are more robust than the T-2 and should be
a marked improvement giving long service.
2. The requirement of attaching the antenna for both blue tooth and the
radio may prove to be a weak point over time. Also, some one needs to look
into why the 35 watt won't work as a repeater with the Triumph 3. I took
many pictures & screen shots and have done the set up outlined by Matt on the
website for whenever someone has a little time. I would also suggest that
given the blue tooth range with the antenna, that maybe the repeater be
able to blue tooth and possibly increase the battery life on the Triumph 3.
Also, my "duh" moment: Modemvu is not the same as Netview modem for configuring
the radio to be the repeater.
3. It also appears that the unit needs to run for a couple of hours in your
location to start work properly. The first day, it was charged all night, but
didn't show but about 6 hours battery capacity, said the base point was 20'+
off in regard to the proven base point (DPOS before). After that first day
the battery life is more on a full time of 11 to 12 hours, and now the base
locations are within a few feet similar to the T-2 in the base rover setup.

My overall impression of the Triumph 3 is good. There are a couple of things
to be aware of: 1. For those who remember way back when the T-2 started to log
base data, it would do something weird on the odd occasion. The Triumph 3 has
done this same thing a couple of times as well. It will run through the resets
and start "popping corn" only to start giving 20' to 30' distances in the scatters
about half way through the occupation. It will continue and finally verify, but
you may be on the point for 10 minutes or more. This is probably some kind of
programming fix or an update to the LS may fix this.

These issues may be attributable to the LS as it seems to be under powered for
the new information, as has been discussed on the forum. A couple of times,
the screen would stop updating the scatters and epochs at around 150 to 170
seconds while the clock and engines kept advancing. After a while the engines
would reset and then everything would update on the screen and the shot be
verified. Also, you have to turn down the GNSS engines from 6 to 2 for the
current setup. I am curious if the new chip for the LS would allow you to go
back to using the 6 engine setup.

Finally, THANK YOU to Shawn and Adam for all the help. It has been invaluable.
 

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
That's great, Bob. I believe now that with the two engine firmware, I would set the minimum required engines to 1. Still use verification and validation with 180 seconds duration.
 

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS

You can Bluetooth pair your 901 to the Triumph 3 and use it as a base similarly to your Triumph 2 now, with the additional signals capable of being tracked by the Triumph 3. You could send your LS in for a new radio, sometimes referred to as the Two Kings radio. The Two Kings radio can receive FHSS or UHF, but cannot transmit. This way you can work with your Triumph 2 and FHSS or the Triumph 3 and UHF. Or, as you asked, you can buy a Triumph 1M with FHSS and the additional signals.
 
You can Bluetooth pair your 901 to the Triumph 3 and use it as a base similarly to your Triumph 2 now, with the additional signals capable of being tracked by the Triumph 3. You could send your LS in for a new radio, sometimes referred to as the Two Kings radio. The Two Kings radio can receive FHSS or UHF, but cannot transmit. This way you can work with your Triumph 2 and FHSS or the Triumph 3 and UHF. Or, as you asked, you can buy a Triumph 1M with FHSS and the additional signals.
Thank you. Shawn!!!
 
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