Post pics of difficult shots

Matthew D. Sibole

Well-Known Member
5PLS
image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg 0.5' from a 28" oak tree
 

Jim Campi

Active Member
Gentlemen, I'm interested in hearing the time to a fixed position (at least 2 engines). I typically move on to collecting with another method if it doesn't fix within 5 minutes. Anyone care to add the approximate time to a fixed position to their post?
 

Matthew D. Sibole

Well-Known Member
5PLS
I guess that depends on your definition of a fix and if you are talking about getting through the first phase of the collect process.
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
I have set on a spot for 10 plus minutes waiting for a single fix, then I have seen the LS fix and run thru 180 seconds with out a glitch. In canopy everything (sat's, cover, wind) has to line up to get the measurement. The new Hybrid RTK puts this time to waiting to use. I like to hang out at the corners a while and look around anyway, so I don't think much about the time that I am waiting on the conditions to get right.
 

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
Be sure to make use of the Reset Tracking when it seems to be dragging longer than it should.

Adam is exactly right about Hybrid RTK. You're waiting, but you're not wasting time. All of that data is getting stored, waiting to be sent to DPOS for processing with the base.

The fact is that RTK doesn't work everywhere, even Javad's. It works a lot of places, but not everywhere. Sometimes it works in places, but it may be faster to turn it in with the total station (especially if you're running a two many crew anyway). As the guy in the field, you have to be able to look at the situation and determine which technology will produce the required results the fastest. You're ability to answer that question will be THE KEY in determining how profitable you are (in my very humble opinion). For a solo guy that equation looks a bit different than for the two man crew. For Adam or Matt, working by themselves, two thousand feet from the truck, the calculus is "I can wait here for 10 minutes to get a verified fix, or I can walk back to the truck in 5minutes, get the gun and bring it back here, shoot a pair of points to occupy and backsight with RTK, set the gun up and turn it in. For a solo guy, he's doing every step of this. For a two man crew, the labor is divided up. It could be for the two man crew, it's faster to do the pair and turn it in.

You all probably already know what I'm talking about, but it's the reality. The cool thing is that you have a choice. Before systems like the LS, the answer was always traverse in with the gun. Now you get to use a bit more creativity to determine the best course of action.
 

Jim Campi

Active Member
Hi Shawn,

Your post describes precisely what I deal with on a daily basis and really what I am getting at with question of time to a fixed position. (Matt - I am referring to 2 fixed engines and making it through the first phase of the verification process. 2 fixed engines and a reset).

I too am a 1 person crew. I have a tech available, but he's on contract and used only when required.

What is the hybrid RTK you mentioned.
 

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
Hi Shawn,

Your post describes precisely what I deal with on a daily basis and really what I am getting at with question of time to a fixed position. (Matt - I am referring to 2 fixed engines and making it through the first phase of the verification process. 2 fixed engines and a reset).

I too am a 1 person crew. I have a tech available, but he's on contract and used only when required.

What is the hybrid RTK you mentioned.

Jim,
Check out this thread I just started about Hybrid RTK in Arkansas. Hopefully it will help describe what it is.
https://support.javad.com/index.php?threads/hybrid-rtk-in-arkansas.1730/

I wish I could help you on the question of efficiency, but I believe it's such a nuanced question that only experience will tell you for sure, and even that will not be 100%.
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
A few pic's. The second pic is of a compass survey to locate a creek, using the camera view and internal compass on the LS and a tape.
 

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Nate The Surveyor

Well-Known Member
If you work alot in the woods, I think that is a good idea, to press that at the START. Most of the time, when working in the woods, that is a GOOD first step. And, even later too.

I have seen mine, work along, nothing happening, for 2 mins, PRESS RESET RTK, and BOOM! we are back in the music.

I had some ideas, but I'm running the current TESTING version. It seems a bit different, than the USER version. I'm gonna wait on that.

Nate
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
Here's a pic taken at Carrier Park in Asheville, NC. I had met with Mike Lacey yesterday to show him the equipment. We were able to get agreeable RTK and PPK from several observations under this tree. We had one shot that I stopped at 120 seconds because I knew it was not correct (distance to last and multiple shots). Notice the PPK on the one with bad RTK still agrees with the other 4 solutions.

PROCESSED-POINT-INFO-SCREEN_20160614-08.02.55.png

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PROCESSED-POINT-INFO-SCREEN_20160614-08.01.14.png




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Wes Cole

Active Member
Yesterday I went out with a crew to get a job tied to grid and also do some more testing with the LS, I'm still getting the feel for what I can trust and what I can't. I tried pushing it under a fully leafed beech tree with low hanging limbs and while it DPOS'd with a fixed solution, it's out from the total station shot by 2.38' positionally. The observation was 452 seconds. Again this was just a test and on this small property it would have been inefficient to use anything other than a total station/robot to complete the survey. Here's some photos, values:

20160614_111604.jpg
LS6 under beech tree.

20160614_111646.jpg
"Sky View"

00075_Objects_20160615-10.23.55.png

"LS6", CORS processed PPK values

00075_Base___Rover_Statistics_20160615-10.23.58.png

Base-rover statistics. Maybe someone can shed more light, but I believe the confidence ellipse is telling me something is amiss?

LS6_20160614-11.05.15.png

Failed groups. As it's been discussed before, keeping the best 5 groups and continuing to chug would be nice.

3_COLLECT_20160614-11.06.45.png

Stored at 452 seconds.

LS6 PPK Values:
N: 725,205.65
E: 955,258.93

LS6 Total Station Values:
N: 725,206.94'
E: 955,256.91'

Question is: in heavy canopy such as this do any of you have a minimum duration to collect PPK? If I would have doubled my time to 15 or maybe 20, 30 minutes would it have made a difference? I suppose it's speculation as the upcoming constellation would probably be the determining factor.


Although this point blew out I did have nice results on another point, LS8, under canopy but not as thick as LS6:

20160614_112021.jpg
LS8 against white pine

20160614_112037.jpg
"Sky View"

LS8_20160614-11.22.58.png



Total Station Values:
N: 725,194.62'
E: 954,995.95'
Elev.: 2122.50'
 

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Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
Wes, for PPK i have noticed bad solutions come thru with any time less than 10 minutes in heavy canopy. 3-5 minutes works fine in the open for the PPK. I been using 10 minutes as my line in the sand and will add time based on how heavy the canopy is. Also when the RTK is really struggling thats a good indicator to bump up the static time. Try it out with a little longer time.
 

Wes Cole

Active Member
From the picture there is almost no sky view at all under the Beech tree.

Oh I know. When I went in there I knew it wouldn't get good results, I certainly didn't expect it and I'm not concerned it didn't. My post is driven more by a question of minimum duration of time rather than why didn't this work out. Could more time have made a better result?

Also the PPK come's back as fixed and I'm interested in knowing if they always come back fixed. Have you ever gotten a failed PPK solution?
 
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