RTK idea pile

#1
OK, boundary settings.

Start with START button.
Stop after 120 Epochs
Minimum duration, 200 seconds.
Verify with V6 Reset, YES
Confidence Level 10
Minimum engines 2

IF it is in a challenging place, and it gets 5 epochs, into ONE group, (total number of groups is 25!)
BUT, 2 of those happened in the first minute, and one happened in the 3rd minute, at 190 seconds, and 2 more happened at the 215 second mark.
We now have SEPARATION between FIRST and LAST epoch, at the 215 second mark.
At this point, it should be allowed to go to phase 2. Where it goes to 120 epochs, (for the min epoch count of 120)
Then, at the end of 120 seconds, it COULD skip phase 3, because it has the separation, already during phase 1. This can be done manually. (I've done this, and then started another for additional redundancy.) But, IF it is set to automatically restart, this would be ok.

Or leave as is, and let it do it's final reset, and now we have HIGH confidence.

It's rolling around in my head.
What goes on in your head?

Nate
 
#2
We should be able to set the auto accept on what we feel is a good shot. This would be nice not having to watch the LS.

It doesn't seem like this would be hard to do.

Great Idea Nate!
 
#3
What if we had a check box, so that IF it has xx epochs, with resets, over a time span of xx seconds, that is all the verification it needs. (With recomeded settings).

And the xx's are user setable values.
I'd be pretty happy with 5 epoch's, with resets, over 250 seconds. (Of course, we still have the 120 epoch count, during phase 2)
Or, 10 epochs, (with resets) over 200 seconds. (Keep the 120 epoch count, in phase 2)
Or, 3 epochs, (with resets) over 600 seconds. You see what I'm getting at.

In fact, I'd like to see these epochs, with resets renamed epochs-R, or the like. This could facilitate better communication, between LS users, and the LS, and between all us LS users. Any kind of name change would be fine, to differentiate between re-set epochs, and non-reset epochs.
I'm blathering a bit here, but I'm trying to fuel the idea pile. I hope other passionate LS users will modify my rough ideas, and make them smooth.
One extra button, under profile settings, that lets you access this would work.
Color it red, "advanced user settings"


Thank you,
Nate
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
#4
Nate, I played for a while using only verification. I could set minimum phase 1 duration for 180 or 240 second, set the total duration for the same time and let it sort out the culls for the whole shot. I think if you are taking multiple shots and averaging this is a solid way to go. What do others think?
 
#5
A couple questions. How many shots, per point, or monument?
And how accurate did you feel it was?
Do you use this for stakeout? What kind of shot spread?
Do you feel it saved time? Or improved accuracy?
Thanks for sharing.
N
 
#6
So I am strickly worried about time when I'm out there. I do the same procedure for collect as I do stakout. If I'm in a tough spot for the LS, I wait until I have a min. of 180 seconds between epochs and store the point. Then I do it again and see how it checks. Usually it checks below 0.07 but I'm hapy with 0.10. If I need ot to be tighter than 0.10 i take a 3rd and maybe a 4th shot depending on residuals.

Usually when I'm back at the office and I have sent my data to DEPOS I am either .05 +100ppm or .10 +200ppm depending on the accuracy requirements my state requires.

It would be nice not to have to watch each shot. Once I have the specified time separation i would like it to auto-accept as Nate aforementioned.

Just to cerify. Lots of my shots have lots more than 180 sec. of separation. I really like to see 240 or longer, but in a tight spot I go ahead and store the 180 and check.
 

Darren Clemons

Well-Known Member
#7
I do along the same lines as everyone has mentioned. The big issue I’d see in auto accepting after a specified number of seconds is this. Say that your second epoch comes in at 255 seconds. If you have it set to auto store, then you are only getting those two epochs to average together the stored coordinate for that point. Many times, once that 2nd, 3rd 4th and so on epoch comes in, the LS finally “finds” a good locked in position and will continue on and through phase 2. Phase 3 still may be tough to complete, but by the time it finishes phase2 you could have a few hundred epochs that it will use to average the coordinate it stores. If it auto stored as soon as it reached a certain number of seconds you’d potentially miss all that.

Me personally, I like watching the screen on each epoch. If it is really, really struggling and I get 2 epochs with 255 seconds of separation and I have over 15 minutes of PPK, then I’ll manually stop/store. If it’s getiing several “pops” in many buckets quite frequently, then I’m fairly certain, it’ll eventually get me at least through phase 2 and I let it continue to cook. Each point and each location is so very different.

By far the biggest and most frustrating thing in the entire 3 phase setup right now is the flaw in the jump/fail routine during phase 2. On a tough job all in heavy coverage, I sometimes have that happen 3 to 5 times a day. That really, really needs addressing ASAP.
 
#8
@Adam "using only verification"
So, it's only using reset rtk epochs?
How many shots is typical, for 3 mins?
I can see that working, in ok, to good environments. But 20 min to get 3 epochs that are in the same group, is more like the 'impossible' spots I'm working in.
N
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
#9
I do that when I am in really bad enviroments. I have my LS set up in a pretty bad location and on RAMS using this method if youd like to see it.It's in really large hardwoods next to a metal shed. I am on a ridge at least.
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
#12
@Adam "using only verification"
So, it's only using reset rtk epochs?
How many shots is typical, for 3 mins?
I can see that working, in ok, to good environments. But 20 min to get 3 epochs that are in the same group, is more like the 'impossible' spots I'm working in.
N
Places like this one Nate....

3-COLLECT_20180924-11.39.06.png



The final screenshot
IMAGE-VIEWER_20180924-12.03.30.png


Final screenshot of second shot.

IMAGE-VIEWER_20180924-12.15.15.png
 
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#16
Adam, I'm actually surprised this shot was so difficult. Looks--honestly--like a piece of cake. Many of my difficult shots are deep in dense pine-oak forests.
 
#17
OK, Adam, how do you look at shot spread, with your method? ie, your 195 group above, has 5 epochs, within the "Confidence Guard". I'd assume it only means that you have them all within the Confidence Guard?, and, if you shoot it 2x, then you could look at shot spread.
So...
IF
We
Had a "MOVE ON" button, that would let it move to phase 2, anytime we wanted, then we could SEE the shot spread, (Of the 5 epochs above or, 195 group shot). IF we could manually move it to Phase 2...
Nate
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
#18
Any boundary corners I shoot I usually look at the 95% condfident ellipses in the base rover statistics white box. If it is outside of my tolerance for that survey I repeat it always. If its good I usually do a short check and roll on. The peak to peak is good to look at but it's not the number our board requires we certify to.
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
#20
Adam, I'm actually surprised this shot was so difficult. Looks--honestly--like a piece of cake. Many of my difficult shots are deep in dense pine-oak forests.
The screenshots above are for the point located in the doorway of my shop. It is a very difficult place. I didn't post any screenshots of the point between the two oaks and the shed. They were fairly easy shots.

The building in the shots above is close to 20' tall, 40x80 length. All metal roof and sides. If you look at the groups there were 195 different groups, thats due to major multipath and 180 degrees worth of sky completely blocked.