Rtpk

Nate The Surveyor

Well-Known Member
Ok, what happens when you get into a "radio hole", where there is no radio? How does this work? Is there a way to "RTPK" after the fact, after getting back into radio range? Can DPOS work then?
Maybe we could have an RTPK button in the points screen, where it uses bluetooth, to process this point? This would require a return to base, connect to bluetooth, then RTPK. There could be 2 buttons there. One just does an individual point, the other does "all RTPK up to this time".
Also, the RTPK white button is not available yet in stake out. I did a bunch of stake out the other day. That precious RTPK button could not be found!
Thank you,
Nate
 

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
Future plans include this. It's not currently implemented. DPOS has been able to do this for a long time now. But requires internet.
 

Nate The Surveyor

Well-Known Member
Ok, if I don't get a shot via rtk, and I don't get it through RTPK, will I still be able to get it via DPOS? Or, is this not functioning at this time?
Thank you
Nate
 

Steve Douty

Well-Known Member
As I understand it; If I return to base (either by Bluetooth or by hot-spot (internet)) and use DPOS I must stop and download the base to process. This means that to continue the job I must re-initiate the base/rover setup and that I then have two base files with rover shots to process the next day. It also means that the base wasn't collecting data during the field DPOS and therefore I must be aware of the time I was on base to assure that I have a significantly long base file for good CORS processing.

Is my understanding correct?
 

Michael Stazhkov

Developer
JAVAD GNSS
As I understand it; If I return to base (either by Bluetooth or by hot-spot (internet)) and use DPOS I must stop and download the base to process. This means that to continue the job I must re-initiate the base/rover setup and that I then have two base files with rover shots to process the next day. It also means that the base wasn't collecting data during the field DPOS and therefore I must be aware of the time I was on base to assure that I have a significantly long base file for good CORS processing.

Is my understanding correct?
In the latest PreRelease there is possibility to download a base file without stopping of the base (the "Download" button appears in the place of "Recall" button when the base is started). We have tested it inside but have no feedback yet.
 

Michael Stazhkov

Developer
JAVAD GNSS
what happens when you get into a "radio hole", where there is no radio? How does this work? Is there a way to "RTPK" after the fact, after getting back into radio range?
In the current PreRelease there is preliminary feature (actually first purpose of the feature is for testing) to post-process all points using the same RTPK engine. (Points screen -> Menu ->Post-Process Rover files (on the third page)). This option will process all point in the current project. There are no possibility to select points, any filters are ignored. This feature checks presens of a base file and can use it instead of embeded corrections. So it allows to post-process points like DPOS does but without internet connection. Of cause you need to download the base file first using bluetooth and as I wrote above you can download the file without stopping of the base.
 

Nate The Surveyor

Well-Known Member
OK, we need information. Information about HOW this works.

1._ Lets say I go and observe a point, with NO RTK. Too far from base, or hill shadow. And, we observe for 2-3 min, (Out in the open), and we use DPOS to process it. Does this use an RTPK engine, through DPOS, using the additional L-1 portions of the Sats that I just got turned on? Or, is the the same OLD DPOS, with only 2 constellations?
2._ Lets say I observe a point, WITH RTK, within Radio Range, and I get an RTK solution. And, since RTPK is on, and I have the White Box, RTPK turned on, I press the white BOX one time, after being on point for 2 minutes, and it brings me a solution. I stay an additional minute, and RTK FINISHES with full verify, and so RTPK runs for 2 mins, and RTK for 3 minutes. Then, I come home, and DPOS it. Does the 2 min RTPK solution get overwritten, by DPOS, which has the FULL RTPK 3 min time frame?
OR, does it look, and SEE that RTPK has been done, and used, therefore, it SKIPS this point, even though that extra minute may move it a little?
3._ Lets say we are observing a point, and we simply hit STORE before RTPK finishes. What happens then? Does it just use the DPOS sourced solution?
We are in the field. Tell us what our fine little boxes are doing. Thank you,
Nate
 

Michael Stazhkov

Developer
JAVAD GNSS
1._ Lets say I go and observe a point, with NO RTK. Too far from base, or hill shadow. And, we observe for 2-3 min, (Out in the open), and we use DPOS to process it. Does this use an RTPK engine, through DPOS, using the additional L-1 portions of the Sats that I just got turned on? Or, is the the same OLD DPOS, with only 2 constellations?
Justin software, DPOS and RTPK should use the same core for post-processing. It could be that some of them is behind of others temporary because of different release date but generally they should return the same result.
Post-processing locally or remotely on service uses recorded measurements in GNSS files as input and nothing else. So what was recorded with rover point and on Base receiver at that time can be used and nothing else.

2._ Lets say I observe a point, WITH RTK, within Radio Range, and I get an RTK solution. And, since RTPK is on, and I have the White Box, RTPK turned on, I press the white BOX one time, after being on point for 2 minutes, and it brings me a solution. I stay an additional minute, and RTK FINISHES with full verify, and so RTPK runs for 2 mins, and RTK for 3 minutes.
Actually this is a bug that RTPK doesn't start again at the end of survey if you pushed it manually. We will fix the bug and you will have 3 min of RTPK in your case.

Then, I come home, and DPOS it. Does the 2 min RTPK solution get overwritten, by DPOS, which has the FULL RTPK 3 min time frame?
Yes, DPOS will use the whole GNSS file (3 min) and will overwrite RTPK solution.

OR, does it look, and SEE that RTPK has been done, and used, therefore, it SKIPS this point, even though that extra minute may move it a little?
We think that DPOS should return the same or better solution than RTPK because it has more information (precise ephemerides and so on). And we decided to overwrite RTPK solutions by DPOS (but you have option to send or not rover points files for base-rover processing on DPOS).

3._ Lets say we are observing a point, and we simply hit STORE before RTPK finishes. What happens then? Does it just use the DPOS sourced solution?
We are in the field. Tell us what our fine little boxes are doing. Thank you,
If you push Accept before RTPK processing finished it will interrupt the processing and the point will not have RTPK solution stored. But you can send later to DPOS.
Later we will add the possibility to post-process a separate point using offline RTPK engine in the field from "Points" screen or may be from other place.
 

Nate The Surveyor

Well-Known Member
So, the FIELD RTPK solution is UPDATED via DPOS, which is UPDATED, (or will be soon) so that ALL RTPK solutions in the field, are LATER revised, via DPOS. These differences will vary, because the field RTPK solution may be based on 1 minute, and the DPOS solution may be based on the whole data amount, such as 3 min, 4 min etc.
So, IF we don't purchase the $1000 upgrade to RTPK, we still get good data, FROM DPOS, however, it is not available in the field.
Well, I for one, WANT it in the field. Mr Javad had SAID several months ago, that POST PROCESSED data should be better than RTK. (In deep woods, this was not so true with ONLY 2 constellations.)
We are the ones responsible for our work, and responsible to know what our tools are doing.
Thank you so very much!

Nate
 

Mark Wheeler

Active Member
Using Pre-release .429: On state RTN (supports 4 constellations) the RTPK works. Issue I am having is with traditional LS the two engine solution uses the same Sats in both Engine 1 and in Engine 2. And for some reason the BDU group is not included in the solution. With the previous release version Engine 1 would use GPS, Glonas and Galileo. Engine 2 would use Glonas, Galileo and Bedoi. All are selected in GNS setup, but are not selectable in the engine boxes. I have tried different settings with no affect. And at times the Bedoi is at the top of the signal chart with 8s, 9s or 10s. On a previous pre-release I had the same issue where that day the LS decided to not use Glonas, even during a time frame when it was at the top of the list. Any help would be appreciated. Also, when I DPOS a point on the development site, Bedoi is not included, whereas all our State Cors stations (some state, some national) include these signals. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark
 

Michael Stazhkov

Developer
JAVAD GNSS
Using Pre-release .429: On state RTN (supports 4 constellations) the RTPK works. Issue I am having is with traditional LS the two engine solution uses the same Sats in both Engine 1 and in Engine 2. And for some reason the BDU group is not included in the solution. With the previous release version Engine 1 would use GPS, Glonas and Galileo. Engine 2 would use Glonas, Galileo and Bedoi. All are selected in GNS setup, but are not selectable in the engine boxes. I have tried different settings with no affect. And at times the Bedoi is at the top of the signal chart with 8s, 9s or 10s. On a previous pre-release I had the same issue where that day the LS decided to not use Glonas, even during a time frame when it was at the top of the list. Any help would be appreciated. Also, when I DPOS a point on the development site, Bedoi is not included, whereas all our State Cors stations (some state, some national) include these signals. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark
Could you send the project with recorded GNSS files to support (Projects screen -> "Send Project to Support").
 
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