Static/PPK in the woods
- Thread starter Nistorescu Sorin
- Start date
Nistorescu Sorin
Active Member
Well Adam, I chose the beautiful part (surveying), from a beautiful place, I think.. 
Patrick Garner
Active Member
Nistorescu, thanks for sharing. A totally new concept to me. And totally logical.
Nistorescu Sorin
Active Member
I just dare to imagine LS as a conventional/kinematic ground control point for a drone, but must avoid lift & tilt..
Nistorescu Sorin
Active Member
Some different technologies (non-GNSS) can no longer be neglected anymore when we are working in difficult places. This kind of devices would work on the LS pole in my opinion.
Patrick Garner
Active Member
Worth watching the full 4 min's of the video. Quite amazing. What does this little device cost?
Nistorescu Sorin
Active Member
About 18k. I tried it at Intergeo in 2013. We managed to scan the whole building in about 30 min. Also I will investigate Google Tango technology as a non-GNSS technique. They are advancing pretty fast, and the big players must adapt.
Note that both methods use SLAM technology (simultaneous localization and mapping), but in addition, Google Tango use aria learning, depth perception, etc.
Note that both methods use SLAM technology (simultaneous localization and mapping), but in addition, Google Tango use aria learning, depth perception, etc.
Last edited:
Nistorescu Sorin
Active Member
Lot of errors can be simply removed by (post)processing the GNSS and IMU together. I can see this technology is becoming more and more accessible for surveyors.
Integrating inertial sensors onto GNSS boards, will certainly increase the performance in environments such as urban canyons, heavy canopy or other GNSS-denied environments. Combination of GNSS multiple-frequency and onboard IMU is the key for robust centimeter-level, RTK positioning.
Civil professionals will probably choose an affordable budget IMU, with high stability, reliability and quality requirements for challenging environments:
http://www.murata.com/en-us/products/sensor/gyro/scc2000
For military use, a survey grade IMU can make the difference even in those places where GNSS usually fail:
Also these expensive devices could provide great support for precise Augmented Reality (AR) applications.
Integrating inertial sensors onto GNSS boards, will certainly increase the performance in environments such as urban canyons, heavy canopy or other GNSS-denied environments. Combination of GNSS multiple-frequency and onboard IMU is the key for robust centimeter-level, RTK positioning.
Civil professionals will probably choose an affordable budget IMU, with high stability, reliability and quality requirements for challenging environments:
http://www.murata.com/en-us/products/sensor/gyro/scc2000
For military use, a survey grade IMU can make the difference even in those places where GNSS usually fail:
Also these expensive devices could provide great support for precise Augmented Reality (AR) applications.
Nistorescu Sorin
Active Member
Staking some land properties scattered in mountain area, somewhere between 900m to 1500m through the pine forest in a clean area, free from interferences.
Right from the valley, the step slope was against us. Despite the good planning my receiver worked hard to get a reliable fix and total station was a real help.
As a small surprise on the way to the top, we saw the (pillar) monument with a GNSS permanent station for seismic monitoring, part of our National Seismic Network, that works independently from GNSS National Geodetic Network.
All of the (real-time) data are globally linked, for ex. with the US National Earthquake Information Center (NEIC), Institute of Physics of the Earth Russia and many other international institutes.
https://earthquake.usgs.gov/monitoring/operations/network.php
The static data from our National Seismic Network are free and easily obtained through an interactive on-line request. Sometimes their location are much closer compared to any station from GNSS National Geodetic Network and next time we will certainly take them into count.
After more than 10 years, my receiver is still waiting sometime for a Galileo E1/E5 upgrade to help me even better in many other difficult places.
I hope..
Right from the valley, the step slope was against us. Despite the good planning my receiver worked hard to get a reliable fix and total station was a real help.
As a small surprise on the way to the top, we saw the (pillar) monument with a GNSS permanent station for seismic monitoring, part of our National Seismic Network, that works independently from GNSS National Geodetic Network.
All of the (real-time) data are globally linked, for ex. with the US National Earthquake Information Center (NEIC), Institute of Physics of the Earth Russia and many other international institutes.
https://earthquake.usgs.gov/monitoring/operations/network.php
The static data from our National Seismic Network are free and easily obtained through an interactive on-line request. Sometimes their location are much closer compared to any station from GNSS National Geodetic Network and next time we will certainly take them into count.
After more than 10 years, my receiver is still waiting sometime for a Galileo E1/E5 upgrade to help me even better in many other difficult places.
I hope..
Nate The Surveyor
Well-Known Member
Was it a radio problem?
A repeater is on my list of things...
A repeater is on my list of things...
Nistorescu Sorin
Active Member
Nate, due to a good cell coverage all over the country, no problem to receive corrections over the internet even in the woods. But I always have three distinct SIM card from three different operators with me, because there are many places where one GSM operator has limited coverage and the other has good coverage.
So I have two SIM cards inside my dual-sim phone and another one in an external jetpack all configured with the same parameters for streaming correction for my receiver as a Wi-Fi client. Just need to chose one of them with the best signal in my area.
But the real problem in the woods is with number of satellites used by the receiver. I must choose the best part of the day (with planning) to catch 5-6 GPS + 3-4 GLONASS. The pines and the steep slopes just cut off many useful sats. In the worst case scenario, post-processing (DPOS) and TS will be my best friends.
Without cell coverage, a repeater will help a lot I think, but sincerely I expect from the manufacturers a more efficient topo tool dedicated for working in the woods. From military to commercial, many devices could better help us.
https://lasers.leica-geosystems.com/global/disto/dst-360
In my opinion, something that could combine a north-seeking surveying grade gyroscope, a good angle encoder and a small GNSS receiver above, with DPOS capabilities.
So I have two SIM cards inside my dual-sim phone and another one in an external jetpack all configured with the same parameters for streaming correction for my receiver as a Wi-Fi client. Just need to chose one of them with the best signal in my area.
But the real problem in the woods is with number of satellites used by the receiver. I must choose the best part of the day (with planning) to catch 5-6 GPS + 3-4 GLONASS. The pines and the steep slopes just cut off many useful sats. In the worst case scenario, post-processing (DPOS) and TS will be my best friends.
Without cell coverage, a repeater will help a lot I think, but sincerely I expect from the manufacturers a more efficient topo tool dedicated for working in the woods. From military to commercial, many devices could better help us.
https://lasers.leica-geosystems.com/global/disto/dst-360
In my opinion, something that could combine a north-seeking surveying grade gyroscope, a good angle encoder and a small GNSS receiver above, with DPOS capabilities.
Nate The Surveyor
Well-Known Member
I'm in the middle of buying a wild t 0. It's a 1-minute magnetic compass. It's accurate to about 6 minutes. A wild B3 Compass is similar.
Nate,
Are you acquiring the older model of the T-0 or a newer model?
I have run literally thousands of miles of seismic line traverses with them.
They are a great instrument. A couple of sunshots in a given area, and you can build a pretty decent isogonic map for magnetic declinations.
I have used modern versions equipped with yoke mounted Red Mini distance meters, and also units that allowed a DI-1000 to be mounted to the scope.
Leap Frog magnetic traversing is very productive, and with care, the closures are very good.
I have also used a B3 compass mounted on a T-1000/DI5S combo, as well as a Wild Trough Compass on the same setup.
The one thing I learned was to set the same leg pointing in approximately the same direction every time. My tripod had a "North" leg.
It seemed to work well for me.
If I ever find a working model, in good condition, I am going to buy one myself.
Are you acquiring the older model of the T-0 or a newer model?
I have run literally thousands of miles of seismic line traverses with them.
They are a great instrument. A couple of sunshots in a given area, and you can build a pretty decent isogonic map for magnetic declinations.
I have used modern versions equipped with yoke mounted Red Mini distance meters, and also units that allowed a DI-1000 to be mounted to the scope.
Leap Frog magnetic traversing is very productive, and with care, the closures are very good.
I have also used a B3 compass mounted on a T-1000/DI5S combo, as well as a Wild Trough Compass on the same setup.
The one thing I learned was to set the same leg pointing in approximately the same direction every time. My tripod had a "North" leg.
It seemed to work well for me.
If I ever find a working model, in good condition, I am going to buy one myself.
Nate The Surveyor
Well-Known Member
Jon, it's the older inverted image one. From the 1960's. There was a B3 compass on Ebay last week. $900.00
I wanted a newer one, with upright image, but they are scarce. I can put you in touch with a guy with 2 inverted image ones, if you PM me.
Nate
I wanted a newer one, with upright image, but they are scarce. I can put you in touch with a guy with 2 inverted image ones, if you PM me.
Nate
Nate,
Thanks!
I wish I could get one! I have to resist the impulse at this time. (It is a very difficult impulse to resist!)
The optical quality on the inverted image models was excellent!
Several of the companies I worked for had multiple units of both versions.
I wish I would have bought them when those companies went under. Could have gotten them for about $100 a piece at the auctions. Nobody wanted them at the time, and I was working out of town. I could have also gotten excellent condition Plane Table, Alidade, and folding "E" rod setups for less than $100.
Raise one foot, kick self in rear end.
Magnetics fell out of favor with most clients in the mid to late 80's in the seismic surveying industry, which was a shame in my opinion.
It was replaced with heavier, slower equipment, forced centering plate angle, or leap frog solar traversing.
Employers and clients were wondering what took us so long to finish a plate angle, forced center traverse through the trees where we had to set up every 110 feet, and cut a clean line of sight, and why we needed more people on the survey crew to do so.
Thanks!
I wish I could get one! I have to resist the impulse at this time. (It is a very difficult impulse to resist!)
The optical quality on the inverted image models was excellent!
Several of the companies I worked for had multiple units of both versions.
I wish I would have bought them when those companies went under. Could have gotten them for about $100 a piece at the auctions. Nobody wanted them at the time, and I was working out of town. I could have also gotten excellent condition Plane Table, Alidade, and folding "E" rod setups for less than $100.
Raise one foot, kick self in rear end.
Magnetics fell out of favor with most clients in the mid to late 80's in the seismic surveying industry, which was a shame in my opinion.
It was replaced with heavier, slower equipment, forced centering plate angle, or leap frog solar traversing.
Employers and clients were wondering what took us so long to finish a plate angle, forced center traverse through the trees where we had to set up every 110 feet, and cut a clean line of sight, and why we needed more people on the survey crew to do so.
Patrick Garner
Active Member
Nate, I just bought a pristine Wild T-16, nostalgia, I suspect, and a flat-out gorgeous piece of equipment.
Nistorescu Sorin
Active Member
I'm tempted to play with this "toy" in the woods..
Good statistic could be calculated using best fit circle with known radius. With 184 channels, it simultaneously tracks and use 4 constellations. I would like to have something like that inside Victor LS.
So, beware of trains, especially for the little ones.
Good statistic could be calculated using best fit circle with known radius. With 184 channels, it simultaneously tracks and use 4 constellations. I would like to have something like that inside Victor LS.
So, beware of trains, especially for the little ones.
Glen Yasharian
Member
Nate: I have a new style Wild T0 if you are still looking. Perhaps the JMate will make that a non-issue. Anyway, you can contact me at gypls@epix.net if you're interested. I hope it's OK to post something like this...
Nate The Surveyor
Well-Known Member
I've already got one. It's purpose is to work in areas of magnetic interference.
Run a magnetic straight line, and you find the line is a big curve. Retracement in areas of magnetic disturbance requires it.
Thanks for remembering me.
Nate
Run a magnetic straight line, and you find the line is a big curve. Retracement in areas of magnetic disturbance requires it.
Thanks for remembering me.
Nate
