T3 as base vs. LS as base

David M. Simolo

Active Member
Hi all. We have been real happy with our Javad equipment. Going forward I want to make sure I am taking advantage of all of the constellations that make sense as my work is often in canopy and gullies.

We currently have 2 "crews": (1) myself and a helper with a T2 with the 35w radio and an LS and (2) my business partner with a T1M (that Mr. Javad said could be traded in for a T3 when they became available) and an LS. I don't want to be swapping equipment back and forth between crews except for an unusual circumstance that might dictate doing so i.e. I want to pretend that we are two separate companies each having their own equipment.

I suspect my partner would be happy with using a T3 as his base instead of the T1M as he is always truly a solo operator.

My situation is a little more complex in that I usually am afield with a helper. That makes me think I might be better off purchasing an additional LS to use as my primary base to gain more constellations. The advantage with this is that on more open sites I could continue to use my T2 and run two LS rovers off of it if I wanted.

I might add that using cellular for corrections around here is not very dependable.

So my questions are:

1. Where are we at with the dependability/complexity of using the LS as a base?
2. Are there any radio limitations using an LS as a base?
3. Will my HPT435BT 35w radio be able to be used as a repeater if needed?
4. Will it operate in "beast mode"?
5. Other than the extra bulk of the LS are there any downsides to using it as a base that I am not considering?

Thanks much in advance for any insights.

Dave.
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
Hi all. We have been real happy with our Javad equipment. Going forward I want to make sure I am taking advantage of all of the constellations that make sense as my work is often in canopy and gullies.

We currently have 2 "crews": (1) myself and a helper with a T2 with the 35w radio and an LS and (2) my business partner with a T1M (that Mr. Javad said could be traded in for a T3 when they became available) and an LS. I don't want to be swapping equipment back and forth between crews except for an unusual circumstance that might dictate doing so i.e. I want to pretend that we are two separate companies each having their own equipment.

I suspect my partner would be happy with using a T3 as his base instead of the T1M as he is always truly a solo operator.

My situation is a little more complex in that I usually am afield with a helper. That makes me think I might be better off purchasing an additional LS to use as my primary base to gain more constellations. The advantage with this is that on more open sites I could continue to use my T2 and run two LS rovers off of it if I wanted.

I might add that using cellular for corrections around here is not very dependable.

So my questions are:

1. Where are we at with the dependability/complexity of using the LS as a base?
2. Are there any radio limitations using an LS as a base?
3. Will my HPT435BT 35w radio be able to be used as a repeater if needed?
4. Will it operate in "beast mode"?
5. Other than the extra bulk of the LS are there any downsides to using it as a base that I am not considering?

Thanks much in advance for any insights.

Dave.
1. It works quite well as it is now. You no longer have to enter the apc offset and the antenna height for the base is entered during the setup. Currently there are a few steps to starting the base on an auto position. It takes a few steps to get the base file into the rovers and to create a dpos session. I don't mind the extra steps that much. Processing is the same after creating the session.
2,3. Right now I can get 2-3000' out of the internal LS radio. With the JL radio as a repeater using the tcp corrections from the LS then repeating uhf I was able to go 2.5 miles. Range is really unlimited as long as you have internet at the base and the JL radio with this set up. I don't have a JL radio. I had one to test for a couple of weeks. So, I am looking forward to when UHF repeater is functioning.
4. Yes
5. Yes the LS is a little bigger than the Triumph 2 (which is a workhorse) or the T3, but there a couple of cool things that the LS can do that the T2 or T1M. One is using RAMS on the base LS. If I have cell service I can turn on RAMS on the base and operate like I was there with it. I can also point the camera toward the road or likely path of a thief and keep a look at whats going on while over the hill surveying.

I haven't had the chance to play with a Triumph 3 so I could be persuaded to abandon the LS base method if the T3 turns out to work better with the new chip.
 

Steve Douty

Active Member
We sometimes are using an LS as a base. In addition we have a JL radio/repeater and have been pleased. Yes, the extra keystrokes for set up and DPOS are slightly painful, but manageable.

At the price point, I can't think of any reason to purchase a T-3 instead of an additional LS.
 

David M. Simolo

Active Member
Thanks much guys, I appreciate the feedback.

I think from what I am hearing the decision will likely hinge upon the performance of the new chip in the T3. I would sacrifice the flexibility of an additional LS for better performance out of a T3. Maybe I'll start hearing some chatter on this topic. I'm hoping to buy something before the end of the year.
 

Steve Douty

Active Member
Check with your LS team. There may be the opportunity to upgrade the LS to the new chip. Price and timing not known at this time. Expected the first quarter of next year.
 

James Suttles

Active Member
We run LS -LS everyday. One of the other benefits, is both LS's can login into the RTN, and work independently. We sometimes have projects that allow for this and it is a real plus. So if you are locating parking lots, open area topo, etc. You can double your production.

We have never owned anything other than LS's, so I cannot speak of what the benefits of a dedicated base, would be.

We took the approach that we can have both worlds base, rover and they can be interchangeable with each other.
 

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
As a base, I don't think the new chip would make a huge difference if you are selecting good sites for the base. However, it's possible that if you are forced into using a marginal site for the base that the new chip could improve performance. Personally, I'm not weighing chip performance in the base as a major factor in my purchasing decision because I try to always select quality base sites.

Like you all, I've wrestled with the possibilities myself and I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. You have options and your organization has specific qualities that may make one option more appealing than the other. I won't say the "customer is always right", because in a technical field there are plenty of examples to the contrary. But an informed customer will make the best decision for his company. This is a great discussion.

I'm a solo surveyor, so I will likely never use two LS's as rovers simultaneously. Now, I could use one as backup if my primary rover were to need repair/service, provided I keep my current Triumph-2 base on the shelf (which I'm likely to do). But I like the integration of the Triumph-3 with the external radios. I also like its simplicity over the LS. But for only $500 price difference (when the T-3 is enabled with all constellations), the LS is compelling.
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
I use 2 LS rovers by myself very often. Yesterday, I had a hard corner to shoot. I left one LS there for an hour. I located pavement found and located a bunch of other corners with the second LS. Very efficient but a lot of walking back and forth between the two.
 

David M. Simolo

Active Member
Thanks again for all of the great feedback guys! I am heavily leaning to getting a T3 for my partner and an additional LS for myself. Anyone care to weigh in on the notion of getting a second LS now vs waiting for the new chip's potential availability to be put in the LS?
 

Steve Douty

Active Member
Like Matthew we work 2 LS's for stake out in the woods. It really makes life better. There are two of us, 3 LS's, 2 T2's, 1 4 watt, 1 35 watt-JL.

We got a new LS about a month ago. We had the extra port added for the J-Mate antenna added. We also had an internal Verison SIM card added, this required an exterior antenna (wasn't expecting that, :().

I would have difficulty making a decision on waiting for the new chip for a new LS for several reasons:
1. It is not clear to me what the new chip will cost.
2. It is not clear to me what the new chip will offer.
3. It is not clear to me when the new chip will be released. (JAVAD doesn't have a good history for releasing on advertized dates, sometimes missing by more than a year.)
4. It is also not clear to me when the T3 will be released.

Based on the above, I would buy an LS with all available updates and antenna ports, and planning on biting the cost for the new chip when, and if, it happens. A bird in the hand that is making my life easier and more profitable as opposed to one that MIGHT happen.

I would like to think that JAVAD would offer a deal for upgrades to those who who bought an LS within a year of the release of the new chip. That would be good customer relations.
 

Duane Frymire

Active Member
The T3 is available but I don't think a new chip is in it right now. I could be wrong. My understanding is the LS and T3 will be available with the old chip, or the new chip going forward at differing costs, as well as a board upgrade to utilize new chip in existing LS for something less than buying a new LS (unheard of in GNSS world until now). But the new chip will not be available until Javad's Birthday, and no one knows when that is:) There will be 3 settings for using the old chip, the traditional in use now, and 2 different ways that include other constellations. The 3 settings are in pre-release, not sure when will be released in stable version. I think the company's got your back, some great options now and into the coming year.
 

Duane Frymire

Active Member
Duane, I've not heard that the Triumph 3 has the old chip. I think it has the new. Maybe, I am misinformed?
I'm going by reading the description on the website of the T3, and taking into consideration that the new chip isn't available for LS yet. Seems if it were being produced it could be used in all. From T3 description "The new powerful and reliable receiver for high-precision navigation systems is based on our 864 channel chip". that sounds like same chip we've been using. But again, I'm not sure.
 

Nate The Surveyor

Well-Known Member
The Triumph-3 has new third generation chip:

View attachment 9490

The new chip is much faster which will allow more satellites to be used when it is in a receiver being used as a rover.
Is the LS chip going to be upgraded too?
Is there a point in time, when all the LS's will get the newer faster 3rd gen chip?
I have a minor damage to my LS. It's a dent in the front, lower left side. It does not affect performance. It makes me have to re calibrate the screen, a little more often. Especially when temperatures change.
If I could buy another LS, with the new chip set, it would make sense.
Will it be possible to upgrade an LS, to the new chip?
We are surveyors. Firing or laying off the less productive members/equipment makes good sense.
Thanks
Nate
 

Zove

New Member
The Triumph-3 has new third generation chip: The new chip is much faster which will allow more satellites to be used when it is in a receiver being used as a rover.
T3 as a rover?! Weight 2.755 lbs / 1.25 kg (with or without battery?) and what screw thread? o_O
 
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