Triumph-LS & T2 Review

Patrick Garner

Active Member
In full disclosure (several of you already know), I'm writing a review of the LS & T2 for American Surveyor. Two issues ago I also reviewed the J-Tip (I was incredibly impressed, btw). I've promised the magazine something by mid summer, and JAVAD has graciously sent me a full unit (LS, T2 & UHF) to poke and prod over the next month or two.

Chances are excellent I'll end up buying my own. This system is too good to simply praise and not purchase. (Oops, I've revealed my prejudices already.)

As background I've been surveying since the late '70s (OMG) when I was still a pup, have been multistage registered (am now a PLS in Massachusetts), am a hydrologist and have been dabbling in GPS/GIS applications on and off for better than a decade. I've owned Trimbles and Leicas. I have 18-20 continuing ed courses in surveying up on RedVector and PDH Online, and actively conduct seminars (mostly on wetlands or hydrology).

Anyway, I'd love to include some user comments. I also get it: Everyone here, understandably, is an enthusiast. Regardless, let me know what you love and what you'd like to see that isn't quite there yet (is there anything?!) I can cull out comments from past threads here, all of which are largely raves. But if you think of anything I should include, please chime in. My emphasis is intended to be how the system functions from a surveyor's point of view. I will avoid drilling down too deeply into the technical marvels, as they seem endless and I fear quickly losing readers with too much detail--which is the opposite of what's intended.

If you respond and would agree to be possibly quoted in the article, just say "Quote me!"

Thanks, Pat
 

Nate The Surveyor

Well-Known Member
Well, you can quote me.
I like the LS.
It automates some very time taking steps.
Like:
1.) DPOS. Generally, give it 20 minutes on the internet, and it is fully "OPUS'ed" and all the boundary points have a Post Processed Shot, as well as an RTK shot, plus it is on SPC.

2.) VERIFY Take a shot on a boundary monument, in woods. It sits, get FIX, and throws it out, ten times. Then, sits for 3 mins, refining the position. Then, starts over, to be SURE it has the right place. So far, I have NEVER had one of these shots be off by more than 0.14'. Most of the time, it is within 0.08'. To confirm, shoot point 3x, and use the weighted average, to typically get it better than 0.05' Horiz. If you have the J-pod, or a bipod, you can be walking around, and doing other things, during this time.

3.) Projections, and coordinates: The internal coords in the LS, are LAT LON. Once you set up a Low Distortion Projection, you can do OTHER jobs, and just assign it this LDP, and since they share the same SPC, from the CORS, they are ALL on the SAME LDP.

There is more, but this is really revolutionary.

N
 

Darren Clemons

Well-Known Member
You're welcome to quote me on anything I've posted on here Pat.
I'll be very interested to read your article. The one on the Jtip was fantastic!

I think you're spot on about avoiding drilling too deep into the technical marvels. I'd actually have to admit that's something that has puzzled me about most/all of the Javad adds in the magazines for the last couple of years. While some are very comical, there sometimes seems to be "too much" technical details that tend to overwhelm a few of the surveyors in my area who've read them. Two or three pages of screen shots and graphs are a bit intimidating to most of us clunky surveyors :) We are typically a very, very "set in our ways" bunch. Once we use something that works it basically takes a congressional bill getting passed to make us change our ways.

That, without a doubt, is the number one "scare factor" for most I've talked to that have looked into a Javad system. What they use is comfortable, like a great broken in pair of work boots, and they don't want to break in something new. Whether it's TDS, Carlson or something else, most guys have probably used whatever software they have for years. They know every click and every button like the back of their hand and when they see the screen shots of the LS it just looks so different. Well, that it is. It's very different - but as Nate says and I wholeheartedly agree, it's revolutionary.

Hayes cogo plotting out of an old HP 48 was revolutionary to a pencil and graph paper. Autocadd and a desktop computer were revolutionary to that and now this Javad system is, without a doubt, the most revolutionary thing we've seen/used in over 20 years! It is the first GPS system we've ever had that has been made FOR surveyors and it is continually being improved based on input FROM surveyors.

We got in on RTK GPS early on, buying our first Novatel system around 1995 and have owned/used about 12 systems since so we've seen most of the advancements of RTK as they've happened but none have compared to the jump that the LS has made. We purchased our first LS and T1M in June of 2015 and admittedly the first 2 or 3 months were quite painful. I kept trying to "force" the LS to work and do things my way (well ok the TDS way) instead of learning and letting it do its job its way. I cussed the cogo functions in the LS for quite some time, but now I can honestly say it's the most capable and powerful field software I've ever used. With TDS, there was pretty much only one way to do everything - that's kind of what made it so successful, it was extremely easy to use. With Jfield, there are a number of different ways to accomplish the same thing, it's all about what you like the best and are most productive with.

After struggling mightily for the first three months then the "beast mode" feature came along in the LS and frankly changed the entire system. Once we had true 5Hz corrections there was simply no contest in canopy anymore. The LS would work and get great, reliable data where no other survey GPS would - period. Everything else since then has just been putting another layer of icing on an already very tasty cake!

The best improvement since beast mode, in my opinion, would have to be the PPK function. After the change to 5Hz corrections there weren't many places you couldn't get RTK, but for those spots - and when you happen to lose radio range - pow! now I can just get one (most times two) 15 minute static sessions with the LS and get great, reliable data that way. It is such a valuable and innovative tool that we had no idea was even coming,and then was added (free of charge by the way) to an already wonderful surveying machine!
 

Jim Frame

Active Member
The best improvement since beast mode, in my opinion, would have to be the PPK function...I can just get one (most times two) 15 minute static sessions with the LS and get great, reliable data that way.
I still chuckle a bit when I read things like this -- rapid-static was the way I did GPS *before* I had RTK. I agree that it's much more convenient to get -- or at least attempt to get -- a good RTK shot before having to resort to static, but to me a static shot is a fallback rather than something new.
 

Patrick Garner

Active Member
Nate, Darren--great comments. Love the detail! The marketing comments definitely echo my own reactions. I hope to address some of the JAVAD approach to this in the future.
 

Darren Clemons

Well-Known Member
I still chuckle a bit when I read things like this -- rapid-static was the way I did GPS *before* I had RTK. I agree that it's much more convenient to get -- or at least attempt to get -- a good RTK shot before having to resort to static, but to me a static shot is a fallback rather than something new.
I did the same Jim....but with 1 to 2 hour sessions on each point. What, of course, is so revolutionary with the LS is that while trying (and usually succeeding) in getting RTK in very heavily canopied areas, we can make use of that time by having static sessions automatically stored in the rover and then use that data for either the point itself or a valuable check on our RTK shot.
 

Nate The Surveyor

Well-Known Member
I'm writing a review of the LS & T2 for American Surveyor. Two issues ago I also reviewed the J-Tip (I was incredibly impressed, btw). I've promised the magazine something by mid summer, and JAVAD has graciously sent me a full unit (LS, T2 & UHF) to poke and prod over the next month or ....
Here is a link to the Professional Surveyor article, with the Jtip.
http://www.amerisurv.com/content/view/15823/153/
 

Patrick Garner

Active Member
So an update for anyone interested. My review for American Surveyor is finally finished and off to the publisher. Thanks to all who contributed expertise, photos and endless opinions. You know who you are!

The article is scheduled to run in the August and Sept issues--too long to fit into a single issue.

I'm sticking around here and have been in discussions to become a J-Team member in the New England area. Yup, love the little box that much. Any comments I post from here on will as a "civilian." Thanks for your endless patience as I've kicked tires and asked dumb questions for the last couple months. :)
 

Darren Clemons

Well-Known Member
So an update for anyone interested. My review for American Surveyor is finally finished and off to the publisher. Thanks to all who contributed expertise, photos and endless opinions. You know who you are!

The article is scheduled to run in the August and Sept issues--too long to fit into a single issue.

I'm sticking around here and have been in discussions to become a J-Team member in the New England area. Yup, love the little box that much. Any comments I post from here on will as a "civilian." Thanks for your endless patience as I've kicked tires and asked dumb questions for the last couple months. :)
Looking very forward to reading it Patrick. So glad you came in here and kicked the tires with us!
I honestly don't think it'd be possible for anyone to "test drive" an LS and then go back to using ANY other piece of survey equipment. Just no way.

That'd be like getting to drive a Ferrari for two months and then having to go back to driving a Gremlin :rolleyes:
 
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