What concept would fit better for your applications?

[Nate The Surveyor]

Needed...

Rotate,
Translate,
Scale. (With scale base)

Those are BASIC cogo functions. Yes we can work around. Even, do it on another device. And, import them.
BUT
It's best to have them all in one, for field use.
The dream goal, is to be able to COMPLETE a survey in one device.
Nate

 

[Nate The Surveyor]

I want REVERSE LOCALIZE. Everything localize does, but in reverse. So that, I have a big job going, and some yahoo comes up in his truck, with a thumb drive, on whatever system. I can input these coords, with a LETTER added to the numbers, like
K1
K2
K3
To avoid point conflicts.
Now, I can find points in common, and MAKE a reverse localize to make the new coords be on the same system, I am on.
I know HOW to localize... and I do that, but a REVERSE LOCALIZE flows with a surveyors thinking a little easier.

Nate

 

[John Rosco]

I want REVERSE LOCALIZE. Everything localize does, but in reverse. So that, I have a big job going, and some yahoo comes up in his truck, with a thumb drive, on whatever system. I can input these coords, with a LETTER added to the numbers, like
K1
K2
K3
To avoid point conflicts.
Now, I can find points in common, and MAKE a reverse localize to make the new coords be on the same system, I am on.
I know HOW to localize... and I do that, but a REVERSE LOCALIZE flows with a surveyors thinking a little easier.

Nate

Select either the 'Localization Page' or the 'Coordinate System Page' in JFIELD

See video 'Multi-Point Localization' -

 

[Matt Johnson]

Now, I can find points in common, and MAKE a reverse localize to make the new coords be on the same system, I am on.
I know HOW to localize... and I do that, but a REVERSE LOCALIZE flows with a surveyors thinking a little easier.

Hi Nate, I believe what you are asking for which is viewing the local coordinates in the underlying coordinate system for the localization should already be possible. Just preform the localization as you normally would, then switch Page to a page with the underlying coordinate system. Then all points should be displayed with coordinates for that underlying coordinate system.

 

[nusouthsc]

Distances can be viewed in one of four types and therefore 'scaled' by:-
Geo (Ellipsoid)
Grid (CS projection)
Ground (at average height)
Slant (ECEF)

Also see 'Localization' that relates and can reference a local coordinate system to known geodetic or grid coordinates.

Using Grid-to-Ground will also provide 'scale difference' between points.

John,
What I am referring to is a Cogo Scale Function whereby I can scale selected points, by a predetermined scale factor, using a predetermined base point of my choosing.

We use this in the field all the time to proportion out error when resetting property corners. When scaling linearly, its pretty simple, but when scaling curves and multiple traverse legs, a scale function is required. Our current workflow is to export the points to a usb (since google drive is gone), go get the data collector with Trimble access, start a new project, import the points, scale function, select points, base point, and scale factor. Then re-export to usb, and import back into J-Field. Continue working.

Again, Javad is the ONLY field software I have ever used that doesn't have a scale function. Is this something that can be implemented? Ideally a Translate, Rotate, Scale routine could be created.

Your thoughts?

 

[John Rosco]

John,
What I am referring to is a Cogo Scale Function whereby I can scale selected points, by a predetermined scale factor, using a predetermined base point of my choosing.

We use this in the field all the time to proportion out error when resetting property corners. When scaling linearly, its pretty simple, but when scaling curves and multiple traverse legs, a scale function is required. Our current workflow is to export the points to a usb (since google drive is gone), go get the data collector with Trimble access, start a new project, import the points, scale function, select points, base point, and scale factor. Then re-export to usb, and import back into J-Field. Continue working.

Again, Javad is the ONLY field software I have ever used that doesn't have a scale function. Is this something that can be implemented? Ideally a Translate, Rotate, Scale routine could be created.

Your thoughts?

From the "Triumph-LS Users Guide", the JFIELD Grid-to Ground' Scale Factor is entirely able to be controlled by the 'user' and the underlying 'observations' . . .
See video 'Multi-Point Localization' - in Post #43 (above).



For 'Single Point Localization' (to compute a Scale-Factor) see -

 

[nusouthsc]

John,
Thanks for the video. I am looking for the ability to scale design points. Just a simple function to scale design points.

 

[John Rosco]

John,
Thanks for the video. I am looking for the ability to scale design points. Just a simple function to scale design points.

See video 'Multi-Point Localization' - in Post #43 (above).

 

[Nate The Surveyor]

John..... I KNOW that localization is in this software.....
But it's a bit complex for some users.....
and....
the SIMPLE ability to scale a group of coords, as we wish, is really not too much to ask. YES it represents a NON willingness to "Do it the Javad way".
Kind of like walking down the street, and being required to go to an intersection, to cross the street. If the streets are near empty, Jay walk.

So, we want to Jay walk. Sometimes.

OK?

Nate

 

[John Rosco]

John..... I KNOW that localization is in this software.....
But it's a bit complex for some users.....
and....
the SIMPLE ability to scale a group of coords, as we wish, is really not too much to ask. YES it represents a NON willingness to "Do it the Javad way".
Kind of like walking down the street, and being required to go to an intersection, to cross the street. If the streets are near empty, Jay walk.

So, we want to Jay walk. Sometimes.

OK?

Nate

Hi Nate,
If one simply wants to know the 'Scale Factor' of a 'ground point' from a single 'grid' point, see Single Point Localization' video, in post #46 . . .
For a group of points see, 'Multipoint Localization' video, in post #43 . . .

JFIELD is the 'Javad Way' (with the TLS) but it is robust, and also very easy to 'compute', 'review', and to 'modify / change' (and correct) 'pre-survey', 'during survey', and also 'post-survey', yes?

 

[Nate The Surveyor]

I've got a job right now, that has a highway along one side of some 2000'. It's got curves, and it's got details.
I sure with Javad could compute acreage, ALONG CURVES. I know, I can do it manually.
I'm a Jay-walker.
Use other software.
Nate

 

[nusouthsc]

See video 'Multi-Point Localization' - in Post #43 (above).

John,
I am not sure where we are not connecting on the topic. JField offers the ability to translate design points. Then you can rotate design points. Very simple. I am just asking for the ability to SCALE design points. It is the next logical steps when manipulating design points. All surveying software gives the ability to translate, rotate, and scale.

I cannot understand how a localization ties into this. We tie all our surveys to SPC. It doesn't seem logical to edit my CRS as a workaround to applying a simple scale factor to a few design points. I don't want to make my survey match the design points. I want to make the design points match my survey points.

 

[Nate The Surveyor]

I do actually understand John Rosco's point.... Go through LOCALIZATION, (Pages allows this, without modifying the UNDERLYING coords), and AFTER localize, switch to a SPC page, and BOOM! you are done. I do this regularly.

But, some of us just want to Jay walk, and skip localize, and do it ourselves. For a myriad of reasons. One of which is it's what we know, it's how we always did it, and learning new things causes our sphincter muscles to tense up.

I say, allow direct scaling.
BTW, John, is there anybody in the J-Field programming booth anymore?
Allow direct scaling. It's practical. In the sense, that is what many of us know.
Nate

 

[John Rosco]

Since localization starts with a selected coordinate system and then with linked control points (from another system such as a ground LDP), will calculate a localized coordinate system for the user use as preferred. With a minimum of three (3) linked Control points a localization (scale & rotation) may be calculated.
This is what JFIELD allows users to accomplish from their 'design' and 'measurement' data.

In general, using the same units of measurement, the calculation of a 'grid position' with an average 'grid' CS projection scale factor (for example) of 0.999799, the 'ground point' scale factor (for example) will be 1 / 0.999799 = 1.00020104. So the user is able to apply a direct' scaling' if so desired . . .
However, the above basic 'scaling' calculation does not account for any 'rotation' that maybe involved between the 'grid' and 'ground' positions (IE: they will be in alignment).

Javad does have JFIELD program and support staff members.

 

[Matthew D. Sibole]

Since localization starts with a selected coordinate system and then with linked control points (from another system such as a ground LDP), will calculate a localized coordinate system for the user use as preferred. With a minimum of three (3) linked Control points a localization (scale & rotation) may be calculated.
This is what JFIELD allows users to accomplish from their 'design' and 'measurement' data.

In general, using the same units of measurement, the calculation of a 'grid position' with an average 'grid' CS projection scale factor (for example) of 0.999799, the 'ground point' scale factor (for example) will be 1 / 0.999799 = 1.00020104. So the user is able to apply a direct' scaling' if so desired . . .
However, the above basic 'scaling' calculation does not account for any 'rotation' that maybe involved between the 'grid' and 'ground' positions (IE: they will be in alignment).

Javad does have JFIELD program and support staff members.

Most softwares allow a rigid translate and rotate or a non-rigid one. Non-rigid would scale. It should be a simple implementation.