T2 Option Upgrade

Jim Campi

Active Member
Currently I have an LS with T2. I have noticed on the product description page for the T2 that the receiver is capable of tracking more constellations than GLONASS and GPS.

I would like to upgrade to the LS+; however, I have been instructed that some of the benefits, such as variety of signals requires more than 2 constellations. Is it possible to update options on the T2 and see benefit of the LS plus?
 

nusouthsc

Active Member
Currently I have an LS with T2. I have noticed on the product description page for the T2 that the receiver is capable of tracking more constellations than GLONASS and GPS.

I would like to upgrade to the LS+; however, I have been instructed that some of the benefits, such as variety of signals requires more than 2 constellations. Is it possible to update options on the T2 and see benefit of the LS plus?
Jim,
The T2 is able to track all 4 constellations with limitations. Its my understanding it doesn’t track several of the new signals. If you refer to the product page next to the buy button you can access the data sheet and compare the tracking to the LS+ to see what signals they mutually track. Looks like several of the GALILEO and the newest BeiDou aren’t tracked.
 

Phillip Lancaster

Active Member
You need to talk with Steve Hankins. He has his setup the way you guys are wanting. I think the T2 will only get one beidou and one galileo signal once configured.
 

Jim Campi

Active Member
I would recommend upgrading your base first to a Triumph-3 or Triumph-1M before upgrading to the Triumph-LS Plus.
Shawn, so you are saying it's not practical to add optional constallations to T2 (to use all constellations that the T2 is capable of tracking for signal variablility)? With or without the LS+.

I know with the LS and T2 using RTPK I am required to set the signal variability to zero or it will never find a solution. Does adding options for more constellations to the T2 solve this problem?
 

Jim Campi

Active Member
You need to talk with Steve Hankins. He has his setup the way you guys are wanting. I think the T2 will only get one beidou and one galileo signal once configured.
I noticed that Steve Hankins liked Shawn's comment that it's best to upgrade to T3 or T-1M. Sounds like adding constellations to T2 does not help.
 

Shawn Billings - Javad

Active Member
JAVAD GNSS
Shawn, so you are saying it's not practical to add optional constallations to T2 (to use all constellations that the T2 is capable of tracking for signal variablility)? With or without the LS+.

I know with the LS and T2 using RTPK I am required to set the signal variability to zero or it will never find a solution. Does adding options for more constellations to the T2 solve this problem?
If you have a Triumph-2, I think it makes sense to update the OAF and the firmware to be able to track BeiDou and Galileo signals and to be able to send corrections for those signals. It won't be nearly as good as sending all of the signals that a Triumph-1M or a Triumph-3 or another LS, can send, but it will be better than GPS + Glonass only.

The best way I can describe the Triumph-LS Plus RTK engines is to equate it to a high-performance sports car. You don't put regular gas in a high-performance sports car, you put in the high-octane fuel. If you put regular gas in a high-performance car, you're likely to get less performance out of it that a regular car using regular gas. Similarly, the Triumph-LS Plus absolutely out-performs the standard Triumph-LS in both points under canopy and in longer baselines, provided that it is fed multi-constellation corrections. If it gets GPS +Glonass only corrections, you're better off with a standard LS, at least with the LS Plus engines as currently configured.

For this reason, I recommend if you need to stage your path to upgrading, that you start with the base. Get a Triumph-3 or Triumph-1M or simply buy a Triumph-LS Plus and use your current standard LS as a base for it. From a financial standpoint this approach may make the most sense for you. The standard LS cannot connect to an external radio (HPT401BT, HPT404BT, HPT435BT) by Bluetooth. It can connect to a J-Link radio by WiFi. So if you need long range radio, then you might need to consider buying a new radio. If you are satisfied with 1-watt range, then the LS already has that built-in (except in cases of the so-called "Two Kings Radio" that receives UHF and Spread Spectrum - this radio has no ability to transmit). So then all you would require is a new Triumph-LS Plus which sells for $16,990. If you upgrade your existing Triumph-LS to LS Plus, you'll also need a new base. The upgrade cost for the LS is $5,450. You'll also want to consider what you'll do in the downtime. We offer rental standard Triumph-LS's for $1,000. For those who have not upgraded to RTPK, this option is now standard with new LS Plus's but is not included in the upgrade from standard LS to LS Plus, so if you didn't already have RTPK you'd be looking at $1,000. The new Triumph-LS Plus has the cellular modem activated automatically. The standard LS has an optional upgrade to activate the internal modem for $1,000. Also, regarding the cellular capability, the new LS Plus has a cellular modem that supports both Verizon (CDMA) and AT&T (GSM). Most standard LS receivers were sent with a modem that only supports GSM. The modem can be upgraded for around $360 if it is done during an LS to LS Plus upgrade.

So depending on if you need to (1) add RTPK and cellular to your current LS, and (2) if you want to upgrade to the GSM and CDMA modem in the current LS, and if (3) you need to rent a Triumph-LS while yours is being upgraded, you may be looking at more than the $5,450 upgrade cost for the LS.

Second, you will still need to buy a base if you upgrade your LS. The Triumph-3 is priced at $12,490 and includes all constellations and a UHF radio and cellular modem (GSM and CDMA). The Triumph-1M with all constellations and internal UHF radio is $10,490, and is available with a GSM cell modem for an additional $1,000.

Just the base price of the LS to LS Plus upgrade together with the Triumph-1M is $15,940. No cellular included. I am making the Triumph-1M comparison because the standard Triumph-LS shares the same receiver board as the Triumph-1M. If you used your standard LS as your new base, you would have similar performance as you would expect from a Triumph-1M. The Triumph-3 and Triumph-LS Plus share the same receiver board. They both track a few more signals than the LS/1M. I cannot speak to whether there is a significant performance in a Triumph-LS Plus being fed corrections from the Triumph-3 vs. corrections from a LS/1M. Anecdotally I have heard that those who have compared them have seen a slight edge in getting corrections from a Triumph-3, but I've done no testing to confirm this nor am I aware of any testing by others to confirm this.

Whew. I think that covers all of my thoughts on upgrading a Triumph-LS with Triumph-2 system to a Triumph-LS Plus with ______ base. I know that was long, but perhaps you can connect some dots and find a path that makes sense for your circumstance. There is no doubt that the LS Plus is an incredible advancement over the Triumph-LS. I've not had anyone make the upgrade and later express regret for making the upgrade. They have all been extremely pleased with the true improvement in performance.
 

Jim Campi

Active Member
Thanks Shawn, I have the LS with the GSM and UHF radio. I also upgraded to the photogrametry option (this is not the correct name). I will also have added the RTPK by the time I upgrade.

It sounds like I add 360 for the LS+ upgrade for verizon modem. Will I keep my other options?

Also the T3 sounds like the highest perfromance option and the T-1M is the most cost effective choice for a base. Also we really don't know if the plus is faster with either base.

Also there is no trade in option for the T2, correct?

Finally, any thoughts on when the plus will see an upgrade? If its right around the corner I would rather wait. Can you even discuss?
 

Jim Campi

Active Member
If you have a Triumph-2, I think it makes sense to update the OAF and the firmware to be able to track BeiDou and Galileo signals and to be able to send corrections for those signals. It won't be nearly as good as sending all of the signals that a Triumph-1M or a Triumph-3 or another LS, can send, but it will be better than GPS + Glonass only.

The best way I can describe the Triumph-LS Plus RTK engines is to equate it to a high-performance sports car. You don't put regular gas in a high-performance sports car, you put in the high-octane fuel. If you put regular gas in a high-performance car, you're likely to get less performance out of it that a regular car using regular gas. Similarly, the Triumph-LS Plus absolutely out-performs the standard Triumph-LS in both points under canopy and in longer baselines, provided that it is fed multi-constellation corrections. If it gets GPS +Glonass only corrections, you're better off with a standard LS, at least with the LS Plus engines as currently configured.

For this reason, I recommend if you need to stage your path to upgrading, that you start with the base. Get a Triumph-3 or Triumph-1M or simply buy a Triumph-LS Plus and use your current standard LS as a base for it. From a financial standpoint this approach may make the most sense for you. The standard LS cannot connect to an external radio (HPT401BT, HPT404BT, HPT435BT) by Bluetooth. It can connect to a J-Link radio by WiFi. So if you need long range radio, then you might need to consider buying a new radio. If you are satisfied with 1-watt range, then the LS already has that built-in (except in cases of the so-called "Two Kings Radio" that receives UHF and Spread Spectrum - this radio has no ability to transmit). So then all you would require is a new Triumph-LS Plus which sells for $16,990. If you upgrade your existing Triumph-LS to LS Plus, you'll also need a new base. The upgrade cost for the LS is $5,450. You'll also want to consider what you'll do in the downtime. We offer rental standard Triumph-LS's for $1,000. For those who have not upgraded to RTPK, this option is now standard with new LS Plus's but is not included in the upgrade from standard LS to LS Plus, so if you didn't already have RTPK you'd be looking at $1,000. The new Triumph-LS Plus has the cellular modem activated automatically. The standard LS has an optional upgrade to activate the internal modem for $1,000. Also, regarding the cellular capability, the new LS Plus has a cellular modem that supports both Verizon (CDMA) and AT&T (GSM). Most standard LS receivers were sent with a modem that only supports GSM. The modem can be upgraded for around $360 if it is done during an LS to LS Plus upgrade.

So depending on if you need to (1) add RTPK and cellular to your current LS, and (2) if you want to upgrade to the GSM and CDMA modem in the current LS, and if (3) you need to rent a Triumph-LS while yours is being upgraded, you may be looking at more than the $5,450 upgrade cost for the LS.

Second, you will still need to buy a base if you upgrade your LS. The Triumph-3 is priced at $12,490 and includes all constellations and a UHF radio and cellular modem (GSM and CDMA). The Triumph-1M with all constellations and internal UHF radio is $10,490, and is available with a GSM cell modem for an additional $1,000.

Just the base price of the LS to LS Plus upgrade together with the Triumph-1M is $15,940. No cellular included. I am making the Triumph-1M comparison because the standard Triumph-LS shares the same receiver board as the Triumph-1M. If you used your standard LS as your new base, you would have similar performance as you would expect from a Triumph-1M. The Triumph-3 and Triumph-LS Plus share the same receiver board. They both track a few more signals than the LS/1M. I cannot speak to whether there is a significant performance in a Triumph-LS Plus being fed corrections from the Triumph-3 vs. corrections from a LS/1M. Anecdotally I have heard that those who have compared them have seen a slight edge in getting corrections from a Triumph-3, but I've done no testing to confirm this nor am I aware of any testing by others to confirm this.

Whew. I think that covers all of my thoughts on upgrading a Triumph-LS with Triumph-2 system to a Triumph-LS Plus with ______ base. I know that was long, but perhaps you can connect some dots and find a path that makes sense for your circumstance. There is no doubt that the LS Plus is an incredible advancement over the Triumph-LS. I've not had anyone make the upgrade and later express regret for making the upgrade. They have all been extremely pleased with the true improvement in performance.

Thanks Shawn, this message is highly appreciated. I am not 100% on this but think the cost of each item is less than the product page. You also provided much needed analysis of the various options. This is one more instance where I sincerely believe that Javad has far and away the best service!
 
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