CMM file format exports, averaging module, and chains as dist unit

Monte King

Member
I was curious if any progress or further thought has gone into the possibility of having an export file type be in the CMM format. The files I would need are the *.lsa(or *.con as I only process/adjust conventional traverses in CMM using my RTK coords as control), *.cor(coord file), *.zzz(vert control/benchmark file). This is not a requirement for me as there is a work around with the *.csv files to get the RTK coords into CMM in the version of RHCMM I am currently using. However anything to improve workflow is appreciated.

BTW I am very impressed with the average module in COGO, I was expecting a simple coord meaning routine and WOW you fellas took it one step further and actually average the RTK vector data-IMPRESSIVE!!!

I am still anxiously awaiting the update that allows Chains as a dist unit in the COGO package, I can calc the conversion in the calculator but an option to input and/or see chains as the output would be useful(only in COGO, do not want chains as dist unit for project).
 

Matt Johnson

Well-Known Member
5PLS
Hi Monte,

Adding the ability to inputs distances in units of chains in the CoGo functions is on the to do list.

Do you have any documents that detail the CMM file formats?
 

Monte King

Member
I will have to do some digging for the documentation, but if I can not come up with it I can make a call or 2 and probably get what is needed. I will get back to you ASAP.
 

Kelly Bellis

ME PLS 2099
5PLS
Do you have any documents that detail the CMM file formats?
Matt, here's is what I wrote to you on October 23rd.

The LSA file is probably the only thing needing a little help to decipher. The COR and LEV file structures are pretty obvious.

In general, column widths are to be rigidly observed. Point names in CMM (not CEFB) may be be up to 16 characters in length. The dovetailed data collection program, CEFB and its latest incarnations have point names which are restricted to 8 characters in length.

COR files are as Monte described; name, easting, northing; the product of a horizontal least squares adjustment.
LEV files are elevations, noting that the job I grabbed (Job No. 1422) - the last job we set pins on back in July - have only zeros in its LEV file because we weren't concerned with z. LEV files can contain zeros, a single project elevation for all shots or the product of a vertical least squares adjustment with individual elevations for every point matched in the COR file. At export time these two can be married into the single DXF along with all line work and point symbologies.

LSA is really a bit of a stretch for J-Field but with the concepts of LSA's structure and end purpose, there could be a glimmer of hope for Monte. At the top, the first line(s) contains control point(s). The next section are horizontal distances between given points. The next block of lines in the file after the horizontal distances are horizontal angles with the order BS, OCC, FS given in the point names for each line/angle. The next line(s) following the angles contains azimuthal data. At a minimum, each project may have two control points and no azimuths or one control point and one azimuth. Of course there can be more control points and azimuths. The LSA represents the distillation of the OBS file in the horizontal. The observation file's redundant measurements get reduced to the bare bones minimum data through one of the steps along the way that reduce multiple horizontal angles and slope distances to mean values, and some other cool stuff like resections, offsets and such using a behind the scenes program, also written by Ray, OBS2LSA is run. Monte failed to mention another file produced at the same time, the ZZZ file. The ZZZ represents the distillation of the OBS file in the vertical. All of which are incremental steps to the final least squares adjustment.

The purpose of the LSA is to facilitate running LSAQ which then produces the COR and LEV files along with their respective statical reports; ADJ and ZOU respectively. Ray has written Hector the Vector and while I have never gotten into its use, I'm inclined to think that 1) the GFILE export options already afforded in JField (thank you Mr Frame for bringing this into the discussion) + 2) the CMMesque Hector program maybe could play nice together for Monte and other BLMers familiar with Rayware. But inclinations are sometime slippery and I've no experience to add other than we should invite Ray into the conversation. He may be able to just glance at the GFILE export and see how it could be used, probably in some fashion akin to how StarNet is handling it, but in Hector. I'm happy to give him a buzz, just not during Jeopardy!

Although it's a bit dusty with age and your attention span has probably collapsed miles ago, the attached compiled help file may serve you further should you be marginally interested. Originally written for Kurt Wurm's port, Ron Hamilton's version includes this document I wrote in early 1999 just a six months after the BLM was pulled the plug on CMM/CEFB. Some still feel, including myself, that halting CMM's development was tragic and its persistence in use through today I think bears witness to that.

Have fun!
 

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  • Intro to winCMM.zip
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Matt Johnson

Well-Known Member
5PLS
Thanks, Kelly. I still had this information. I was hoping that there may be some documentation with CMM that we could use rather than trying to reverse engineer it. The Into that you attached does not display any of the help text for me. I'm guessing there are other files needed to be able to view it.
 

Matt Johnson

Well-Known Member
5PLS
Ok unchecking the box "Always ask...when opening this file..." worked. I see in the documentation that CMM can import comma delimited files:

upload_2014-11-18_14-58-41.png


Is this how you currently import coordinates Monte?
 

Monte King

Member
No in my version of CMM (CMM07 v.8.203 modified 7/21/2008) the only import option is to convert a NEZ(comma sep text file or *.csv) to a LSA file(actually creates all pertinent CMM files from the CSV as its own CMM job), then there is an option to import control(from another LSA file) into my current job. Having an export of the CMM files from Jfield would save a step for me and I could go directly to import control from the LSA file created by Jfield. I am using the coords from RTK as control(vert and horz) in my CMM for conventional traverses and/or corner positions. Every CMM user probably uses a different version as it has not been officially supported as mentioned by Kelly for quite some years. Actually CMM will not run on operating systems above XP unless the latest files from Ray Hintz(no new functions op sys fixes) are obtained which are not a fix to all functionality and in reality are meant for Ray's CMM(dos) but can be used for other versions. I could go on forever on BLM's need to bring CMM into today but back on topic. If Jfield had the CMM exports then a guy could start a CMM job directly from the Jfield exports then CMM can export a *.csv for import back into Jfield. For guys that use CMM and work on small projects this could really increase their productivity while keeping some software and routines familiar. I believe this would lower the learning curve and add more flexibility to how a surveyor(cmm user) would add the Javad receivers and software to their toolbox.
 

Matt Johnson

Well-Known Member
5PLS
I will have to do some digging for the documentation, but if I can not come up with it I can make a call or 2 and probably get what is needed. I will get back to you ASAP.

Hi Monte, were you ever able to find anymore documentation on the CMM file format?
 

Monte King

Member
Yes I did come up with some information from the user manual for Version 1.0. It does not go into too much detail as far as the actual structure of all the files. I will get it scanned and posted here for you hopefully this week sometime.
 

Monte King

Member
Here is what I have for documentation. Hope it helps. Let me know if more info is needed or I can provide example files.
 

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  • CMMv1pgs123-128.pdf
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