Hybrid RTK in Arkansas

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
Thursday and Friday I had the pleasure of going to Arkansas to the Arkansas Society of Professional Surveyors Convention. The location for the conference was really nice, particularly for surveyors. It's in a remote area outside of Little Rock with a nice facility, well manicured landscaping, and a large pond.

Friday afternoon, I got together with Nate Dearyan and Steve Hankins, both surveyors who use the Triumph-LS. I thought that while I was there, we'd spend some time looking at some of the new features in the next release of J-Field.

We set up the base, a Triumph-2 with the HPT901BT spread spectrum radio on a retaining wall with a good view of the sky. We then walked around the pond and located three points, each with varying degrees of obstruction to the sky discussing some of the software changes as we went.

Point 1 was on a concrete slab with fairly open skies, the Point 2 was on a sidewalk passing under some deciduous trees, what I would consider light canopy, and Point 3 was under the drip line of a 40' tall cedar tree with some pine trees near by, what I would consider moderate canopy. We shot these points for about three minutes each along with a confidence of 20, minimum engines of 2, and validation with 2 engines at the end. So it resets the engines at the beginning of the shot about 20 times, waits until it has 2 engines fixed and records until the time is up (3 minutes) and resets one last time with validate until two engines are fixed, making sure that the last fixes match well with the first 20 fixes.

We walked back by the base and turned the radio off. The base is still running, but I have no communication. We walked through each point and collected them again. This time we used the Activate Post Processing After button that counts up to a required amount of time and notifies the user when the time has elapsed. So now we have no radio communication, but the base is recording raw data and the rover is recording raw data.

We collected raw data using Activate Post Processing to let us know when we collected enough data and we used the "Save Data for PP" which replaces "Accept" when there are no fixed epochs to use for a position. We did this for each of the three points and returned to the base. We used base rover setup to stop the base and download the data from the base to the rover. The base was logging at a rate of once per second. From my experience I estimate that the Bluetooth download of a file collected at the base at a rate of once per second requires about one minute for every hour recording. We recorded for about one hour fifteen minutes and Steve clocked us at a little under one minute for the download. Next we went inside and did our post processing.

It took a few seconds, literally, to connect to the WiFi hotspot for the convention center with the LS. I then went to DPOS on the LS and set it to only perform base processing, since I knew that CORS data was not yet available. Within about 3 minutes, the data had been uploaded to DPOS, the vectors processed and the results returned to the LS. This is how each compared:

00192_Processed_Point_Info_20160409-15.25.13.png 00192_Processed_Point_Info_20160409-15.25.21.png 00192_Processed_Point_Info_20160409-15.25.27.png 00192_Processed_Point_Info_20160409-15.25.47.png 00192_Processed_Point_Info_20160409-15.25.54.png 00192_Processed_Point_Info_20160409-15.25.59.png

Notice that point 3 has a valid RTK solution and Post Processed solution, but J-Field elected to use the post processed solution over RTK. This is because the RTK solution has 173 epochs vs. the PPK solution of 180 epochs. Also notice that the RMS is lower for the PPK solution than the RTK. The user is absolutely free to overrule this and select the other solution by selecting the radio button next to the solution type.

Notice that 4, 5, and 6 don't have RTK solutions (the radio was off), so the solution was Code Diff (using WAAS). The software automatically selected the PPK solution for these points. The radio button identifies the coordinates that are used in J-Field, such as for CoGo, as well as export.

How about the inverse between the first pass and second pass?
00192_Inverse_20160409-15.26.30.png 00192_Inverse_20160409-15.26.46.png 00192_Inverse_20160409-15.27.02.png

The base was about 500 feet from these points, give or take, but I believe these results could have been achieved with the same short data sets in the same unruly conditions just as easily within 3 miles (perhaps more).

Many surveyors are buying big 35 watt radios for the rare occasion that they need the extra operating distance. From what I understand, these guys mostly need to locate a point (like a section corner) and don't need the range for stake out. I believe this Hybrid RTK will significantly reduce the need for a big radio, allowing users more convenience and less expense.

Thanks to Nate for his endless enthusiasm while I was there and to Steve for his encouragement. We've got some really great people using this equipment out there.
 

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
One last thing I was thinking about...
I was standing at my booth at the convention with Mrs. Billings beside me. I was telling attendees about the LS, the verification procedures, the 6 engines, the way that stake out is improved by the compass for Guide and for getting directions to the point based on the receiver's orientation. I'd get around to telling them that the software and firmware updates were free as well as technical support and then I'd tell them how the next version of the software was going to include post processing and I described how it worked (generally what I wrote above). There were dealers and representatives from most manufacturers there: Trimble, Topcon, Leica, Carlson, GeoMax, etc. Most everyone is trying to describe how their receiver is better at the same task as the next guy. "We work better in this environment" or "We work better at this task", all of which is subjective (to a point). I firmly believe, with no reservation that the Triumph-LS is the best RTK system on the planet today and of course you'd say that you would expect me to say that. But one thing I do know and can say without argument: we have the best receiver based post processing on the planet. None of these other guys even have this on their receiver. None of them. When you are the only one that shows up on the field on game day, the competition is over. Trimble doesn't have it, Topcon doesn't have it, Leica doesn't have it. Javad has it. Javad has it because he listens to surveyors and he and his team deliver.

The crazy thing to me is that this post processing feature first appeared in operational infancy on February 21, 2016, in our testing versions. Today, a month and a half later, it's almost completely functional and works as if the concept has been in place for years. It's that well thought out, that mature. I'm just continually amazed by it.
 

Jim Campi

Active Member
Thursday and Friday I had the pleasure of going to Arkansas to the Arkansas Society of Professional Surveyors Convention. The location for the conference was really nice, particularly for surveyors. It's in a remote area outside of Little Rock with a nice facility, well manicured landscaping, and a large pond.

Friday afternoon, I got together with Nate Dearyan and Steve Hankins, both surveyors who use the Triumph-LS. I thought that while I was there, we'd spend some time looking at some of the new features in the next release of J-Field.

We set up the base, a Triumph-2 with the HPT901BT spread spectrum radio on a retaining wall with a good view of the sky. We then walked around the pond and located three points, each with varying degrees of obstruction to the sky discussing some of the software changes as we went.

Point 1 was on a concrete slab with fairly open skies, the Point 2 was on a sidewalk passing under some deciduous trees, what I would consider light canopy, and Point 3 was under the drip line of a 40' tall cedar tree with some pine trees near by, what I would consider moderate canopy. We shot these points for about three minutes each along with a confidence of 20, minimum engines of 2, and validation with 2 engines at the end. So it resets the engines at the beginning of the shot about 20 times, waits until it has 2 engines fixed and records until the time is up (3 minutes) and resets one last time with validate until two engines are fixed, making sure that the last fixes match well with the first 20 fixes.

We walked back by the base and turned the radio off. The base is still running, but I have no communication. We walked through each point and collected them again. This time we used the Activate Post Processing After button that counts up to a required amount of time and notifies the user when the time has elapsed. So now we have no radio communication, but the base is recording raw data and the rover is recording raw data.

We collected raw data using Activate Post Processing to let us know when we collected enough data and we used the "Save Data for PP" which replaces "Accept" when there are no fixed epochs to use for a position. We did this for each of the three points and returned to the base. We used base rover setup to stop the base and download the data from the base to the rover. The base was logging at a rate of once per second. From my experience I estimate that the Bluetooth download of a file collected at the base at a rate of once per second requires about one minute for every hour recording. We recorded for about one hour fifteen minutes and Steve clocked us at a little under one minute for the download. Next we went inside and did our post processing.

It took a few seconds, literally, to connect to the WiFi hotspot for the convention center with the LS. I then went to DPOS on the LS and set it to only perform base processing, since I knew that CORS data was not yet available. Within about 3 minutes, the data had been uploaded to DPOS, the vectors processed and the results returned to the LS. This is how each compared:

View attachment 4280 View attachment 4281 View attachment 4282 View attachment 4283 View attachment 4284 View attachment 4285

Notice that point 3 has a valid RTK solution and Post Processed solution, but J-Field elected to use the post processed solution over RTK. This is because the RTK solution has 173 epochs vs. the PPK solution of 180 epochs. Also notice that the RMS is lower for the PPK solution than the RTK. The user is absolutely free to overrule this and select the other solution by selecting the radio button next to the solution type.

Notice that 4, 5, and 6 don't have RTK solutions (the radio was off), so the solution was Code Diff (using WAAS). The software automatically selected the PPK solution for these points. The radio button identifies the coordinates that are used in J-Field, such as for CoGo, as well as export.

How about the inverse between the first pass and second pass?
View attachment 4277 View attachment 4278 View attachment 4279

The base was about 500 feet from these points, give or take, but I believe these results could have been achieved with the same short data sets in the same unruly conditions just as easily within 3 miles (perhaps more).

Many surveyors are buying big 35 watt radios for the rare occasion that they need the extra operating distance. From what I understand, these guys mostly need to locate a point (like a section corner) and don't need the range for stake out. I believe this Hybrid RTK will significantly reduce the need for a big radio, allowing users more convenience and less expense.

Thanks to Nate for his endless enthusiasm while I was there and to Steve for his encouragement. We've got some really great people using this equipment out there.

Hi Shawn,

Do you need to be in an environment where a fixed position is feasible?

I understand the advantage of using this process when outside of radio range (or if you loose the battery on your radio). How about for points where heavy canopy prohibits attaining a fixed solution in a reasonable time period?
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
Jim, I collect static on every boundary and control point. I use it primarily for quality control especially in canopy.
 

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
Hi Shawn,

Do you need to be in an environment where a fixed position is feasible?

I understand the advantage of using this process when outside of radio range (or if you loose the battery on your radio). How about for points where heavy canopy prohibits attaining a fixed solution in a reasonable time period?

I've been able to get a good solution from DPOS when I could not quite make it through the verification process. But I would be skeptical of getting a good solution from DPOS if I couldn't get at least a few fixed epochs from RTK. I've got a place in my back yard, under pine trees that I've never been able to get a fixed RTK solution on, I've been meaning to test DPOS with it, I just haven't done it.

I do suspect that with a long amount of time that static will go where RTK can't, but I don't know yet how long a long time is. I just recall from L1 post processing days (and Nate knows what I'm talking about) that you could leave a receiver in the woods for a few hours, even in a really bad place and get a good answer. But it was always a big investment with a questionable pay off. I know that the DPOS engine (Justin) and the signals being tracked should make post processing in the woods exponentially better than the old L1 post processing. I just haven't got any experience with it yet. It will be a good question to answer with some real world tests!

Jim, one thing you'll be able to do, and Adam hinted at it. You can post process every RTK shot you take with very little effort and build confidence in what it will do. Hybrid RTK doesn't require much difference from your normal work flow.
 

Jim Campi

Active Member
I've been able to get a good solution from DPOS when I could not quite make it through the verification process. But I would be skeptical of getting a good solution from DPOS if I couldn't get at least a few fixed epochs from RTK. I've got a place in my back yard, under pine trees that I've never been able to get a fixed RTK solution on, I've been meaning to test DPOS with it, I just haven't done it.

I do suspect that with a long amount of time that static will go where RTK can't, but I don't know yet how long a long time is. I just recall from L1 post processing days (and Nate knows what I'm talking about) that you could leave a receiver in the woods for a few hours, even in a really bad place and get a good answer. But it was always a big investment with a questionable pay off. I know that the DPOS engine (Justin) and the signals being tracked should make post processing in the woods exponentially better than the old L1 post processing. I just haven't got any experience with it yet. It will be a good question to answer with some real world tests!

Jim, one thing you'll be able to do, and Adam hinted at it. You can post process every RTK shot you take with very little effort and build confidence in what it will do. Hybrid RTK doesn't require much difference from your normal work flow.


1. How do we collect raw data on the rover? Is it "Activate Post Processing"? Or is there another way to configure the LS to collect this data?
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
Jim, you can also set it under the action profile....select what to record... select raw data...1 second interval. Then all points collected with that profile will have static files collected.
 

Jim Campi

Active Member
Hi Adam,

I have "Activate Post Processing" set to 5 mins - is this the correct location to configure collection of raw data for post processing? It is also checked in the Action Profile in the What to Record dialog. I have this set to collect at 1 hz and save to the SD card.

I don't have the option to post process unless there are 0 fixed epocs. My understanding is that rejection of a point or incomplete verify/validate processing should also provide the opportunity. Any thoughts on what I need to modify?
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
5PLS
Hi Jim, you will be able to post process once the APP counter reaches 5 minutes if you have no epochs RTK I think. With always set to record you will be able to process any data collected after you have one epoch to start the recording, I think. I never use the APP button I usually know if I want static based on the type of feature I am locating.
 
Top