SHIFT not working correctly

Bruce Dawson

Active Member
Hi Everyone,

I have used the Shift function in Collect (not Cogo) many, many times since I discovered it, and it has always worked flawlessly. This week, I had it fail badly. Which is better than failing only slightly, I guess. Pretty obvious it was wrong as the points were over 100 feet off! Anyway, it's a site that I have visited regularly. I typically directly occupy my control point with my base on this job, but this time it was not easily accessible (new grading) so I elected to setup randomly and do a Shift to a control point. I ran through the process, known point values were good, Shift ended up being like a foot in Northings and Eastings, several feet in Elevation which is typical for my area, and I hit Accept. The LS locked up for about a minute, not responding, which is decidedly not typical, and then came back. I did a check shot to another control point and was missing it by about 137 feet. Graphically all the points were wrong as well. The Shift function appears to have shifted ALL my Survey points by that much. My Design points were fine. I had to bail on the site, return home and fix the points by doing a manual shift in Points on each setup. Once they were back to their original locations, I returned to the site the next day and tried it again. It did the exact same thing again. Not sure that I am doing wrong, but I may just have to delete all my Survey points and upload them all as Design points to continue working on this job. My system:

Triumph LS rover
Triumph 2 base
HPT401BT radio

Thanks!
Bruce
 

Michael Stazhkov

Developer
Staff member
5PLS
Hi Everyone,

I have used the Shift function in Collect (not Cogo) many, many times since I discovered it, and it has always worked flawlessly. This week, I had it fail badly. Which is better than failing only slightly, I guess. Pretty obvious it was wrong as the points were over 100 feet off! Anyway, it's a site that I have visited regularly. I typically directly occupy my control point with my base on this job, but this time it was not easily accessible (new grading) so I elected to setup randomly and do a Shift to a control point. I ran through the process, known point values were good, Shift ended up being like a foot in Northings and Eastings, several feet in Elevation which is typical for my area, and I hit Accept. The LS locked up for about a minute, not responding, which is decidedly not typical, and then came back. I did a check shot to another control point and was missing it by about 137 feet. Graphically all the points were wrong as well. The Shift function appears to have shifted ALL my Survey points by that much. My Design points were fine. I had to bail on the site, return home and fix the points by doing a manual shift in Points on each setup. Once they were back to their original locations, I returned to the site the next day and tried it again. It did the exact same thing again. Not sure that I am doing wrong, but I may just have to delete all my Survey points and upload them all as Design points to continue working on this job. My system:

Triumph LS rover
Triumph 2 base
HPT401BT radio

Thanks!
Bruce
Please, send the project to support and write a little more details (the known and survey point names).
 

Bruce Dawson

Active Member
Please, send the project to support and write a little more details (the known and survey point names).
Hi Michael,

Project is on it's way. Also, attached is a TXT file of the points from my CAD file that reflect the correct positions. The main points that I used for the base are 1 and 2. I attempted to Shift to point 3 from a random point at 5894 most recently. As I said, this was my first Shift process on this job, before it was always a direct occupation of either 1 or 2 with my base.

Bruce
 

Attachments

  • 2021 Allpoints 090421.txt
    44.5 KB · Views: 34

Nate The Surveyor

Well-Known Member
I don't know if you have what you need, but I battled for 2 hours to get REVERSE SHIFT to work properly today.
I eventually abandoned it. And, Manually backed the coord in. Reset the base, and got to work.
I've sent a previous job in before. Only now the error is larger.
Would you like my job file?
N
 

Bruce Dawson

Active Member
I don't know if you have what you need, but I battled for 2 hours to get REVERSE SHIFT to work properly today.
I eventually abandoned it. And, Manually backed the coord in. Reset the base, and got to work.
I've sent a previous job in before. Only now the error is larger.
Would you like my job file?
N
Hi Nate, thanks but I actually worked around it also and finished what I needed today. Took less than an hour, but it's my third trip out there! Oh well. I just readjusted everything again in the LS, then walked to one of my control points and directly occupied it. Checks looked good and the two points I needed to stake looked good also. What concerns me is having it happen again and not noticing. But I check into something else at least once during a session, so that should show up. I hope...
 

Michael Stazhkov

Developer
Staff member
5PLS
In the PreRelease 3.0.11.814 I have changed the Real-Time shift apply behavior:
- returned apply behavior as it was in the previous release.
- added the possibility to apply the Real-Time shift in the office when there are no incoming corrections from a base.
If it is possible, you can try this version.
 

Nate The Surveyor

Well-Known Member
In the PreRelease 3.0.11.814 I have changed the Real-Time shift apply behavior:
- returned apply behavior as it was in the previous release.
- added the possibility to apply the Real-Time shift in the office when there are no incoming corrections from a base.
If it is possible, you can try this version.
It looks like I have to move to Pre Release to check it out. Can I come back, to Release, after going there? (Some versions don't allow "Go Backs") Thanks
N
 

Bruce Dawson

Active Member
So this problem happened again today. Different job, many miles from the other problem area. This site was originally done back in 2019. At that time, I established a magnail control point (1) and shifted it onto another established control point monument. Did my business with no issues. I since had new information that caused 3 of the points to need resetting by about 5 feet (right of way change). I returned to the site yesterday and randomly setup in the middle of the site and shifted onto one of the monuments to be reset (100). Things looked fine with a shift of 2 or 3 feet in horizontal and several feet vertical. I accepted it, staked to my new design point and reset it which was about 5 feet from the original corner as expected, and pulled the old incorrect one. The second design point was the same, about 5 feet from the old corner. Then I decided to stake to the old corner as a check. That corner was point 102, with the same number still on the wood stake, and found the LS wanted me to go 200 feet south! I was now off by 200 feet. I checked the coordinates of 102 and sure enough, it was out by that much. That point was from 2019. Somehow, it had changed that shift as well. I checked the Shift Details and found that it was applying a 200 foot shift now. I undid the Shift and now none of my points are correct, with the first Shift from 2019 also gone. After that, I abandoned the third point operation and called it a day.

Bottom line, I don't know what I am doing wrong, and probably will not use shift again until I find out. Michael, I can send this data as well if you like.

Bruce
 

Michael Stazhkov

Developer
Staff member
5PLS
So this problem happened again today. Different job, many miles from the other problem area. This site was originally done back in 2019. At that time, I established a magnail control point (1) and shifted it onto another established control point monument. Did my business with no issues. I since had new information that caused 3 of the points to need resetting by about 5 feet (right of way change). I returned to the site yesterday and randomly setup in the middle of the site and shifted onto one of the monuments to be reset (100). Things looked fine with a shift of 2 or 3 feet in horizontal and several feet vertical. I accepted it, staked to my new design point and reset it which was about 5 feet from the original corner as expected, and pulled the old incorrect one. The second design point was the same, about 5 feet from the old corner. Then I decided to stake to the old corner as a check. That corner was point 102, with the same number still on the wood stake, and found the LS wanted me to go 200 feet south! I was now off by 200 feet. I checked the coordinates of 102 and sure enough, it was out by that much. That point was from 2019. Somehow, it had changed that shift as well. I checked the Shift Details and found that it was applying a 200 foot shift now. I undid the Shift and now none of my points are correct, with the first Shift from 2019 also gone. After that, I abandoned the third point operation and called it a day.

Bottom line, I don't know what I am doing wrong, and probably will not use shift again until I find out. Michael, I can send this data as well if you like.

Bruce
Yes, please send the project to support.
 

Bruce Dawson

Active Member
Yes, please send the project to support.
On it's way Michael. Also, like before, attached is a TXT file of the correct values from my CAD file. I was able to import the Unshifted points from the LS into my CAD drawing and do the Shift (translation) there to create correct values.

Let me know if you need additional information. Really need to know what I am doing wrong...

Thanks!

Bruce
 

Attachments

  • 1944 Allpoints 102121.txt
    7.2 KB · Views: 13
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