Base/Rover processing from 2nd rover

[Darren Clemons]

We were on a large site yesterday and used all three of our LS's off one base. These are the easiest systems to do this on we've ever used. Just start the first system as normal and the turn on the other two LS's and as long as they're set at the same radio frequency they pick up the broadcast from the base and are immediately ready to go.
My question is, if any 10/15 minutes dpos raw data is collected with the additional rovers that did not start the base how/can I process those points? I, of course, downloaded the base file into the LS which I started the job with but didn't attempt to on the other two rovers.
Can or could I have connected via Bluetooth with those rovers to the base and downloaded even though they didn't start the base? They technically have no session point for the base file to be associated with.

If that can't be done is there a way to export the point and the raw on points from 2nd or 3rd rover into rover 1 and then process dpos that way?

 

[Shawn Billings]

Excellent question.

We should probably have "From Base" developed to recognize if a file is being recorded and tie that file to the resident rover LS. So after you start the base with the first rover, disconnect. Then step up with second rover, hit From Base and Start Base. This wouldn't do anything to the Triumph-2 that is running, only associate the file. Then disconnect and step up with the third rover and repeat.

At the end of the day. Stop the base with any rover and download the file. Disconnect and Stop Base with each of the other rovers and download the file.

The key difference for the 2nd and 3rd rover would be that they only detect what the Triumph-2 is doing via From Base.

This isn't how it works currently, but I think this would make a clean workflow.

 

[Darren Clemons]

Excellent question.

We should probably have "From Base" developed to recognize if a file is being recorded and tie that file to the resident rover LS. So after you start the base with the first rover, disconnect. Then step up with second rover, hit From Base and Start Base. This wouldn't do anything to the Triumph-2 that is running, only associate the file. Then disconnect and step up with the third rover and repeat.

At the end of the day. Stop the base with any rover and download the file. Disconnect and Stop Base with each of the other rovers and download the file.

The key difference for the 2nd and 3rd rover would be that they only detect what the Triumph-2 is doing via From Base.

This isn't how it works currently, but I think this would make a clean workflow.

So, as of right now, there would not be any way to process a PPK point collected from a second or third rover? I didn't even think of this scenario until I went to download the base with my LS yesterday from the T1M. I asked the other two guys if they had any points they collected 15 minutes on and they didn't. We were basically just collecting riverbank meander points along a long stretch that our farm fronts on (yeah, not many gps systems will work along riverbanks ). We all then thought at the same time - wonder if we can even process them.
What you're describing here would seem to be a great solution. As I said, it's as seamless as it gets to take off with the second rover and this would only add a quick couple of clicks to associate the recording base file.

 

[Darren Clemons]

We still are running into scenarios with this where when using two or more rovers off one base we cannot PPK any points except from the rover that starts the base.
Any updates on if a way to process PPK files from multiple rovers is being worked on?

 

[Matt Johnson]

We still are running into scenarios with this where when using two or more rovers off one base we cannot PPK any points except from the rover that starts the base.
Any updates on if a way to process PPK files from multiple rovers is being worked on?

You should be able to do this with the Prerelease version today with the following workflow:
- create usual Base/Rover project/projects on the first LS;
- collect rover points on the second LS;
- use export/import to copy the project archive with the Base point to the second LS;
- use "Recover DPOS session" found in the context menu in the points screen to create the DPOS session (and the Base point) in the project with rover points on the second LS.

 

[Darren Clemons]

You should be able to do this with the Prerelease version today with the following workflow:
- create usual Base/Rover project/projects on the first LS;
- collect rover points on the second LS;
- use export/import to copy the project archive with the Base point to the second LS;
- use "Recover DPOS session" found in the context menu in the points screen to create the DPOS session (and the Base point) in the project with rover points on the second LS.

Greta news Matt. I'll probably wait until it moves to release to try it.
As usual, with the Javad tech team it's ask and ye shall receive! We attack most all of our large projects with two or three rovers and this has been a thorn for a while. Once you get used to having PPK, both for the point itself as well as a check for very difficult points where you do get RTK, it's tough not to have it.

 

[Darren Clemons]

I was able to successfully complete my 1st PPK processing from a second rover earlier this afternoon.
I am currently running the latest pre release version of Jfield. Here is the entire workflow that I was able to follow to accomplish this with the help of both Matt and Shawn. Thanks guys!

Started job in office on KY single zone state plane coordinate system.
Made duplicate copy of state plane coordinate system, edit coordinate system, adjust grid/ground and rename, clicked project to put job name in front of coordinate system and apply.
Dumped design points into LS - went to field.
Started base, went into edit adjusted SPCS, adjust grid/ground and rename, selected base point to set scale factor, then ok, then apply. 1st rover now ready to start collecting points.
At this point I archived the job out on a USB drive.

Turned on 2nd rover, unpacked archive job from the USB drive from 1st rover onto 2nd rover giving it the proper adjusted SPCS and the base coordinate.
Now 2nd rover is ready to start collecting points.

Collected points with both 1st and 2nd rover, collecting a 15 minute PPK point with 2nd rover only to test it. Had good RTK on this point also so I'll have a good check to the PPK. At end of day stopped and downloaded base to original 1st rover as always.
As soon as 1st rover was finished I disconnected from base, then connected to base with 2nd rover.
After connecting I clicked on the button near the top right of the LS to "manage base files". At this time that button shows the serial numbers of the base you're connected to and the LS (this step needs to be clearer - no way to know what this button does unless you "just know").
The screen now shows all the base files in the base receiver and you just have to find the one you just collected (mine are listed in chronological order so I just went to the last page and found it).
After locating the correct file, hit the download button near the top left above the listed base files.
Now the base file has been downloaded into both rovers. Ready to shut everything down and return to office.

Once back at the office I went into the 1st LS and found the GNSS file associated with my base point by going to data transfer/ browse files. In my LS it was located at: Int/VS Data/Maps/Project Name/Raw Data - this can also be on your SD card depending on what you've selected in the "where to save" option.
Once found, I copied and pasted that file onto the USB drive, then took the USB drive and inserted it into the 2nd rover.

Now, in 2nd rover go into points screen and click on the resource button again and select "Attach GNSS Files". Browse to USB drive and find file from the 1st rover and click open or ok - can't remember exactly which one.

Lastly, while still in points screen and with the base point highlighted click the resource button one last time and select "Recover Dpos Session". When I clicked on that, I saw "checking base data presence", then "analyzing data", then finally "base downloaded awaiting your request to Dpos it".

Went into Dpos, changed settings to base/rover processing only and sent file to Dpos for the one point I collected PPK on. Processed and came back 0.04' from the RTK I'd already stored on that point.

When seeing this all typed out, this seems like a long process but it really wasn't. Only finding the GNSS file, copying it on the USB drive and then a couple clicks on the resource button to attach it and recover the Dpos session.
If anyone sees any unnecessary or incorrect steps, please let me know.

Once again, bravo to the entire Javad team for giving us, the users, what we ask for! This will be a tremendous help for us as we use multiple rovers on many large projects. Ever since PPK was enabled it's been tough NOT having that ability on multiple rovers. No more!

 

[Matt Johnson]

Turned on 2nd rover, unpacked archive job from the USB drive from 1st rover onto 2nd rover giving it the proper adjusted SPCS and the base coordinate.

There is a "Recover Base Point" option now so you wouldn't have to copy the project to the 2nd LS. You would need to create the grid to ground coordinate system though again if you do this.

 

[Darren Clemons]

There is a "Recover Base Point" option now so you wouldn't have to copy the project to the 2nd LS. You would need to create the grid to ground coordinate system though again if you do this.

Yes, Shawn and I talked about that on the phone but when using an adjusted SPCS I like this way better. I think it's quicker than re setting up the adjusted system again.

 

[Shawn Billings]

If I understand you correctly, you downloaded the base file to the second rover using base file manager in base rover setup. Then you also copied the base file from the first rover to the second? If so, one of these steps is redundant.

 

[Darren Clemons]

If I understand you correctly, you downloaded the base file to the second rover using base file manager in base rover setup. Then you also copied the base file from the first rover to the second? If so, one of these steps is redundant.

Ok, I wonderered if that was needed. So if I downloaded from the base then all I had to do was "attach GNSS file" and find it in the internal memory and select it there?

 

[Shawn Billings]

Yes. That's right. Congratulations on the successful processing. I suspect the process will be slicked up before it's all said and done.

 

[Wes Cole]

I was able to successfully complete my 1st PPK processing from a second rover earlier this afternoon.
I am currently running the latest pre release version of Jfield. Here is the entire workflow that I was able to follow to accomplish this with the help of both Matt and Shawn. Thanks guys!

Started job in office on KY single zone state plane coordinate system.
Made duplicate copy of state plane coordinate system, edit coordinate system, adjust grid/ground and rename, clicked project to put job name in front of coordinate system and apply.
Dumped design points into LS - went to field.
Started base, went into edit adjusted SPCS, adjust grid/ground and rename, selected base point to set scale factor, then ok, then apply. 1st rover now ready to start collecting points.
At this point I archived the job out on a USB drive.

Turned on 2nd rover, unpacked archive job from the USB drive from 1st rover onto 2nd rover giving it the proper adjusted SPCS and the base coordinate.
Now 2nd rover is ready to start collecting points.

Collected points with both 1st and 2nd rover, collecting a 15 minute PPK point with 2nd rover only to test it. Had good RTK on this point also so I'll have a good check to the PPK. At end of day stopped and downloaded base to original 1st rover as always.
As soon as 1st rover was finished I disconnected from base, then connected to base with 2nd rover.
After connecting I clicked on the button near the top right of the LS to "manage base files". At this time that button shows the serial numbers of the base you're connected to and the LS (this step needs to be clearer - no way to know what this button does unless you "just know").
The screen now shows all the base files in the base receiver and you just have to find the one you just collected (mine are listed in chronological order so I just went to the last page and found it).
After locating the correct file, hit the download button near the top left above the listed base files.
Now the base file has been downloaded into both rovers. Ready to shut everything down and return to office.

Once back at the office I went into the 1st LS and found the GNSS file associated with my base point by going to data transfer/ browse files. In my LS it was located at: Int/VS Data/Maps/Project Name/Raw Data - this can also be on your SD card depending on what you've selected in the "where to save" option.
Once found, I copied and pasted that file onto the USB drive, then took the USB drive and inserted it into the 2nd rover.

Now, in 2nd rover go into points screen and click on the resource button again and select "Attach GNSS Files". Browse to USB drive and find file from the 1st rover and click open or ok - can't remember exactly which one.

Lastly, while still in points screen and with the base point highlighted click the resource button one last time and select "Recover Dpos Session". When I clicked on that, I saw "checking base data presence", then "analyzing data", then finally "base downloaded awaiting your request to Dpos it".

Went into Dpos, changed settings to base/rover processing only and sent file to Dpos for the one point I collected PPK on. Processed and came back 0.04' from the RTK I'd already stored on that point.

When seeing this all typed out, this seems like a long process but it really wasn't. Only finding the GNSS file, copying it on the USB drive and then a couple clicks on the resource button to attach it and recover the Dpos session.
If anyone sees any unnecessary or incorrect steps, please let me know.

Once again, bravo to the entire Javad team for giving us, the users, what we ask for! This will be a tremendous help for us as we use multiple rovers on many large projects. Ever since PPK was enabled it's been tough NOT having that ability on multiple rovers. No more!

This is really a great feature. Was just talking to Adam about this today, pondering a possible second LS. Glad to hear the ability to run 2 rovers on 1 base is coming along. Thanks for documenting the process.

 

[Randy Rhodes]

I am doing this on a second rover exactly as described and cannot get it to work.the files are visible and have the right size in the file Vewing utility, but do not show up in the list of points. arrrrg!!.

 

[Shawn Billings]

Highlight base in points, select three green bar button, shuffle to the right and select recover DPOS session.

 

[Randy Rhodes]

Thanks Shawn,
I had tried this repeatedly, but only after I had deleted the base files from the rover and attached them from the memory stick did it finally work.

 

[Wes Cole]

Yes. That's right. Congratulations on the successful processing. I suspect the process will be slicked up before it's all said and done.

Has this process been improved or more streamlined? Are both rovers getting RTK corrections?

 

[Shawn Billings]

Has this process been improved or more streamlined? Are both rovers getting RTK corrections?

Nothing has been done to this process yet that I am aware of.

Yes, both rovers are receiving corrections. Remember, the base in RTK is unaware of the rover when using a radio. The corrections are broadcast from the base. The rover does not send anything back to the rover. Any rover set to the same proper base ID (if one is being used), frequency, modulation and message type can receive the correction. This is just like any car radio tuned to a radio station can receive the signal from that radio station. The radio station is unaware of what radios might be tuned to receive the signal.

 

[Wes Cole]

Nothing has been done to this process yet that I am aware of.

Yes, both rovers are receiving corrections. Remember, the base in RTK is unaware of the rover when using a radio. The corrections are broadcast from the base. The rover does not send anything back to the rover. Any rover set to the same proper base ID (if one is being used), frequency, modulation and message type can receive the correction. This is just like any car radio tuned to a radio station can receive the signal from that radio station. The radio station is unaware of what radios might be tuned to receive the signal.

Thanks Shawn, that's what I thought. It's just the PPK on rover 2 that takes a few extra steps to process through DPOS? Still the same steps Darren outlined or is that written up in the manual somewhere? Looking pretty hard at LS #2 now.

 

[Darren Clemons]

Thanks Shawn, that's what I thought. It's just the PPK on rover 2 that takes a few extra steps to process through DPOS? Still the same steps Darren outlined or is that written up in the manual somewhere? Looking pretty hard at LS #2 now.

Wes, it's a little less "sticky" than I first outlined.

I still always get my base and rover #1 started and set the base before doing anything with rover #2. I then archive the job out of rover 1 on a flash drive and unpack in rover 2. This is NOT required, but it really helps me streamline the process. This way, whatever base point number I've started on for the day is also in rover 2 and is ready to attach GNSS file at end of day.

Once finished for the day I just stop and download as normal from rover 1 and unless I'm in immediate need of any of the PPK data, I just head back to the office.

Once there, insert flash drive in rover 1 and click on "files"; "collected with points". That is the easiest way to find the GNSS file associated with that days collection. If, say, your base was point 100, find that point, click "GNSS raw" on far right, then click the "additional actions" button an send it to your flash drive.

Then, remove flash drive and insert in rover 2. Click points and highlight the days base point (100 for example). Click additional actions in top left, scroll to page two, then click "attach GNSS file". Attach the file on the USB.

Lastly, click additional actions one last time, scroll to page two and click "recover Dpos session".

You now should be ready to base/rover process your PPK points in rover 2.

Still several steps, but I've probably done this 15 or 20 times now and once both machines are powered on at the office I can be sending rover 2 data to Dpos in about 5 minutes.

Just like most everything in the LS, once you do it a few times it becomes quicker.