Old rtpk vs. New rtpk

Darren Clemons

Well-Known Member
I like the new version because it doesn't yeild near as many false solutions. Remember those quick ones could agree with a quick rtk and still be wrong. I have seen no rtpk that I remember that were wrong and had a verification of 3.
I agree Adam, I like that verification as well. What we’ve struggled with is nothing but “no solution” messages even sitting on a point for 30+ minutes. Now that I understand that in that 30 minute session it’s trying to solve 15 individual 2 minute sessions I know why. That’s just not nearly enough time in places we go. Hopefully setting a data split time of around 5 to 7 minutes will start getting us better results.
 

Darren Clemons

Well-Known Member
Darren, next time when you get "no solution for the vector" in 15 minutes send a project to support.
We are doing a lot of test in different locations but Ive never seen this for 15 minutes session. I believe it will be helpful. RTPK is not so mature as RTK is. We might to find best approach together.
My point for challenge locations is 2 minutes data split interval for LS+, 6 minutes for standard LS. Am I correct?
Alexey, we haven’t gotten any no solution results in a 15 minute continuous session. From what has now been explained to me, we were just getting 15 individual 2 minute sessions during a 30 minute occupation. Based on our results in the previous version I’m going to bump up my split time to about 6 minutes and I believe we will see much better results.
 

Alexey Razumovsky

Well-Known Member
Staff member
5PLS
Alexey, we haven’t gotten any no solution results in a 15 minute continuous session. From what has now been explained to me, we were just getting 15 individual 2 minute sessions during a 30 minute occupation. Based on our results in the previous version I’m going to bump up my split time to about 6 minutes and I believe we will see much better results.
Do you have LS+ or standard LS?
 

Matt Johnson

Well-Known Member
5PLS
Alexey, we haven’t gotten any no solution results in a 15 minute continuous session. From what has now been explained to me, we were just getting 15 individual 2 minute sessions during a 30 minute occupation. Based on our results in the previous version I’m going to bump up my split time to about 6 minutes and I believe we will see much better results.
I am confused now too when you are saying you have long observations and “no solution” from RTPK.

In the tests I’ve done with reprocessing the same data at different with split intervals, the interval period is not really an important factor. What is important to verify a good solution is time separation between sessions that agree. In the Variety + RTPK profile I designed for the LS+ it splits the data at 30 second periods.
 

Matthew D. Sibole

Well-Known Member
5PLS
Darren, next time when you get "no solution for the vector" in 15 minutes send a project to support.
We are doing a lot of test in different locations but Ive never seen this for 15 minutes session. I believe it will be helpful. RTPK is not so mature as RTK is. We might to find best approach together.
My point for challenge locations is 2 minutes data split interval for LS+, 6 minutes for standard LS. Am I correct?

I had a customer collect 3 separate 10 minute observations on a point yesterday where we did not have any communication to the base (waas float). We tried to process them after the base was stopped and it did not return a result from any of the 3 shots stored. I can forward the file to you later this evening.
 

ken larson

Member
Also check your settings for RTK/RTPK agreement. They might be too tight. I'm using 0.2' and 0.3'.
Shawn....maybe this is posted already, but what are the current variety and rtpk settings rcmnded for t3 ls+ for boundary points? Most of the time variety will resolve quickly if fairly open....so if it is a tougher area the RTPK is what i am waiting on so i assume i would need medium to extreme settings for RTPK....thanx in advance for your input
 

Darren Clemons

Well-Known Member
I am confused now too when you are saying you have long observations and “no solution” from RTPK.

In the tests I’ve done with reprocessing the same data at different with split intervals, the interval period is not really an important factor. What is important to verify a good solution is time separation between sessions that agree. In the Variety + RTPK profile I designed for the LS+ it splits the data at 30 second periods.
We are using LS+
For the 1st month we have had the new version we’ve had the settings on the default of extreme (2 minutes).
We have had very few points in what is our standard rough to extreme conditions that EVER get a (2) or a (3) rtpk match even after occupying the point for over 15 minutes. About 95% of our points in this typical terrain gives an initial rtpk on 1st solution but then every solution thereafter comes back “no solution”.
Now, from what I think I’ve been told, all those 2 minute solutions are ONLY processing that particular 2 minutes and not an aggregate total of the entire session. If that is in fact the case, I’m not surprised at all now with what I’ve been seeing.

This definitely makes sense from our use of the previous version as we never trusted or used our 1st 2 minute solution, but the 2nd (4 total minutes) and the 3rd (6 total minutes) were very, very reliable. Only 2 minutes in our typical terrain and coverage just isn’t enough time.

I have, as of this morning, changed our extreme time to 6 minutes. With that, I can manually run an rtpk at about 3 minutes to get my 1st solution. I can run it again at 4 & 5 minutes if I choose (the asterisk will hold doing this and either move if the solution is different or stay in the same spot). I believe, with this process, I wont completely “lose” some kind of rtpk solution until after the 2nd 6 minute session completes if it doesn’t match the 1st.
 

Alexey Razumovsky

Well-Known Member
Staff member
5PLS
We are using LS+
For the 1st month we have had the new version we’ve had the settings on the default of extreme (2 minutes).
We have had very few points in what is our standard rough to extreme conditions that EVER get a (2) or a (3) rtpk match even after occupying the point for over 15 minutes. About 95% of our points in this typical terrain gives an initial rtpk on 1st solution but then every solution thereafter comes back “no solution”.
Now, from what I think I’ve been told, all those 2 minute solutions are ONLY processing that particular 2 minutes and not an aggregate total of the entire session. If that is in fact the case, I’m not surprised at all now with what I’ve been seeing.

This definitely makes sense from our use of the previous version as we never trusted or used our 1st 2 minute solution, but the 2nd (4 total minutes) and the 3rd (6 total minutes) were very, very reliable. Only 2 minutes in our typical terrain and coverage just isn’t enough time.

I have, as of this morning, changed our extreme time to 6 minutes. With that, I can manually run an rtpk at about 3 minutes to get my 1st solution. I can run it again at 4 & 5 minutes if I choose (the asterisk will hold doing this and either move if the solution is different or stay in the same spot). I believe, with this process, I wont completely “lose” some kind of rtpk solution until after the 2nd 6 minute session completes if it doesn’t match the 1st.
Send to support an example of project that you expect to be useful and we will find the best settings all together.
We found that 1-2 minutes per solution is best choice for T3-TLS+ pair.
You wrote also that you changed time to 6 minutes and stopped RTPK manually after 3 minutes. Why don't you change time to 3 in settings?
 

Darren Clemons

Well-Known Member
Send to support an example of project that you expect to be useful and we will find the best settings all together.
We found that 1-2 minutes per solution is best choice for T3-TLS+ pair.
You wrote also that you changed time to 6 minutes and stopped RTPK manually after 3 minutes. Why don't you change time to 3 in settings?
If I change to 3 minutes and the 2nd solution doesn’t match the 1st, I lose all rtpk info on the LS screen after 6 minutes. Some of our locations seem to need up to 6 minutes of continuous data, not split.
 

Sam Glenn

Member
I also have been having issues with getting RTPK agreements…

After reading the thread yesterday, i made the RTPK setting change today and increased the time settings to 10 minutes. I manually started RTPK at 3 minutes and 6 minutes and let it run on its at 10 minutes. I was not able to see a huge difference in the ability to obtain a solution.

This survey was not a large job (only 10 points) and i still had trouble obtaining an RTPK solution that was worthy of trusting. The 3 minute reading was a waste of time, the 6 minute solution did hit on occasion and never got better or verified with the 10 minute solution. The job was definitely heavy canopy and i was using the SCVRS and not base rover.
i will look at the RTPK agreement values tomorrow and see if i have them set too strict.
 

Alexey Razumovsky

Well-Known Member
Staff member
5PLS
I also have been having issues with getting RTPK agreements…

After reading the thread yesterday, i made the RTPK setting change today and increased the time settings to 10 minutes. I manually started RTPK at 3 minutes and 6 minutes and let it run on its at 10 minutes. I was not able to see a huge difference in the ability to obtain a solution.

This survey was not a large job (only 10 points) and i still had trouble obtaining an RTPK solution that was worthy of trusting. The 3 minute reading was a waste of time, the 6 minute solution did hit on occasion and never got better or verified with the 10 minute solution. The job was definitely heavy canopy and i was using the SCVRS and not base rover.
i will look at the RTPK agreement values tomorrow and see if i have them set too strict.
Does SCVRS broadcast all sats or GPS & GLO only?
 

Darren Clemons

Well-Known Member
IMG-3744.jpg
IMG-3746.jpg


These are the setting in RTPK usage (default - I haven't changed anything except environment category to extreme).
 

Matthew D. Sibole

Well-Known Member
5PLS
Send to support an example of project that you expect to be useful and we will find the best settings all together.
We found that 1-2 minutes per solution is best choice for T3-TLS+ pair.
You wrote also that you changed time to 6 minutes and stopped RTPK manually after 3 minutes. Why don't you change time to 3 in settings?
Alexey,

I have attached a link to a project that has point numbers 106, 107 and 108. These points were collected in WAAS Float mode. Point 108 got 1 epoch of a float solution. All 3 points were collected for 10 minutes each. RTPK would not process any of these points after stopping the base and downloading the base file. All 3 points were on the same iron pin. Just an FWI we got 3 good RTK shots on this pin with the VRS in about 5 minutes total or so. I would expect RTPK to give a good result in 10 minutes if RTK can give results like that with the VRS network. Can you take a look at these points and let me know.


Thank you!
 

Matt Johnson

Well-Known Member
5PLS
Alexey,

I have attached a link to a project that has point numbers 106, 107 and 108. These points were collected in WAAS Float mode. Point 108 got 1 epoch of a float solution. All 3 points were collected for 10 minutes each. RTPK would not process any of these points after stopping the base and downloading the base file. All 3 points were on the same iron pin. Just an FWI we got 3 good RTK shots on this pin with the VRS in about 5 minutes total or so. I would expect RTPK to give a good result in 10 minutes if RTK can give results like that with the VRS network. Can you take a look at these points and let me know.


Thank you!

Your problem is the base data is missing so its not possible for RTPK to process. There is base point 3 but it only has 20 minutes of data.

POINT-INFO_20210729-20.24.45.png
 
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