RTPK Real Time Processed Kinematic

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
I've been using the RTPK application for a few weeks now. The most recent update to Pre-Release has improved the processing speed significantly over previous versions. Here's what I'm seeing:

RTPK at present, requires corrections from your base in real time. This can be a real base or a virtual base, such as from an RTN. As the Triumph-LS works to acquire a real-time position, it also logs raw data at the rover and creates a raw data file for the base using the received corrections. Once the user stops logging a point, the LS immediately begins processing the data similarly to how DPOS processes PPK data, however this is occurring on the Triumph-LS and does not require an internet connection. With multi-constellation data (GPS, Glonass, Galileo, and Beidou) the RTPK solutions have been extremely robust and can often be obtained with only a few minutes in moderate canopy.

My workflow of late, using a Triumph-LS Plus, is to use the Precise Topo profile in all conditions. This profile acquires five individual fixes, then requires at least 2 engines to fix and log for approximately 10 seconds, and then drops the fix and get another minimum 2 engine fix for validation. This profile has proved to be very successful in the Triumph-LS Plus, particularly in medium canopy or lighter. Centerlines of a country road with trees on both sides and building offsets (both of which can be time consuming with the standard LS) have been pretty quick to acquire with this profile and very reliable. In moderate to heavy canopy, this profile can get bogged down waiting for those 2 engine fixes. So after a couple of minutes, I will manually stop logging, which immediately begins the RTPK process. Within seconds, I have a post processed solution that I can compare with the RTK position. If the two agree, I have found the solution to be very reliable, alleviating the need for me to wait for the 2nd and/or 3rd phase to complete. Many points that would have taken 20+ minutes in the field, I am now collecting in 2-5 minutes with this method... with confidence. If RTK and RTPK don't agree with each other (and I manually stopped the point collection) I can tap the "resume" button and continue logging data. The raw data is added to the existing raw data file and I can stop and process again to see if I can get a better RTK position to match the RTPK or a better RTPK position to match the RTK. This aspect is really impressive. There are few times that the observations do not agree, and slightly more often the RTPK is correct and the RTK is wrong, but sometimes the opposite is true (I would estimate 60% RTPK vs. 40% RTK).

Last week, I was using corrections broadcast over TCP instead of UHF (as I normally work). My project was five miles from the base. I was getting good positions on road centerlines with trees on both sides of the road and sky overhead, with only 20 second observations.

Ultimately, I believe RTPK will change the way we verify RTK in the field. You'll be able to navigate to points in real-time using RTK, but when it's time to get store a reliable, refined position, you'll look to RTPK to prove the position, possibly even opting for the RTPK position over the RTK position once they've proved out.

RTPK is a brand new feature and it is already incredible. No doubt we'll develop it to perform many more tasks in the future.

It's quite possible that it could help GPS and Glonass only users, obviously not with the same power as those with multi-constellation. I highly recommend, at a minimum, acquiring a Javad base that can transmit multi-signal messages or upgrade your Javad base to support all four constellations. This will allow you to feed RTPK with the necessary data to provide these incredible solutions in poor locations. For a limited time, RTPK is available on the Pre-Release version of J-Field. This is a great time to try it out and see what the difference is. The price being floated for RTPK (without insulting our business department) is crazy low for what it can do. Get ready, Javad is about to turn the precision GNSS world on its head again.
 

Deris H. Bardales

New Member
Hi Shawn,
Per the above "... or upgrade your Javad base to support all four constellations "
Can the T-2 Javad base be upgraded to support all four constellations, and if so, what is the cost of the upgrade?
thanks,
 

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
Hi Shawn,
Per the above "... or upgrade your Javad base to support all four constellations "
Can the T-2 Javad base be upgraded to support all four constellations, and if so, what is the cost of the upgrade?
thanks,

That is a qualified "no". The Triumph-2 can track single frequency Galileo and Beidou. You can read about that here: https://support.javad.com/index.php?threads/good-news.4294/. I'm not sure what help these signals will provide to RTPK processing. I've been told that it did not have a significant impact on RTK.
 

David Held

New Member
Hi Shawn,
If I get a new LS-Plus, can I use my current standard LS as a base to take advantage of all four constellations including RTPK? If so, is the setup fairly streamlined to utilize the LS as a base. We work in areas of good cell coverage so there are no potential radio issues to worry about.
 

Tyler

Member
So if you are seeing agreement between the RTK and RTPK values is there no longer a need for redundant measurements?

We just tested this out in an area with heavy canopy and collected only 11 epochs with RTK over a 5 minute period of time. We stopped and allowed the RTPK to process and the two coordinates matched within 0.03'.

It appears that this is an accurate location because we compared it to a well established coordinate value gathered previously using conventional total station methods processed in StarNet. The location of the RTPK coordinate was approximately 0.1 feet from our previously established coordinate.

The speed that we were able to measure this difficult point and confirm its location using RTPK was astonishing. Previously, it had taken about an hour to get a fixed and verified measurement on this same point or several 15 minute observations to find a few that would agree.
 

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
That's the theory. I don't have enough experience yet to say for sure. I'm sure there will be exceptions, but I anticipate these exceptions will be quite rare.
 

Clay Davidson

Active Member
RTPK does not work with shift. Evidently this is called reverse shift and is part of some people's normal daily work. Would have been nice to know!!!
 

T.Guisewhite

Active Member
I tried this for the first time today to set some irons in the woods. 60’ poplars, 50’ Beech, a good bit of holly, cedars and large loblolly pines. It was in the edge a floodplain so the terrain was also difficult. I got close...set three points around the irons then triangulated them in to set them. Then I set on the iron and measured it for a fourth location. Did this twice checking the irons at 0.03’ and 0.05’.

the RTPK was super helpful cause nothing would validate. It worked to post process the ones that I “thought” were fixed.

A valuable tool.
 

Clay Davidson

Active Member
I think this is a great attribute to JAVAD. No one else has real time in the field post processing processing power. I LOVE IT!!!!

I get upset sometime because most of the JAVAD team is so defensive.

Instead of hearing my problems they think i'm operating wrong. Or I get accused of not having enough shots. Or they are trying to critique my surveying.

When I go back on my jobs they always check according to my state statutes.

All of my ideas get shot down.

So i
 

Clay Davidson

Active Member
decided that I would just quit posting and when I call to try and get help all I get is your doing it wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Shawn Billings

Shawn Billings
5PLS
I'm not sure what, or who, you are referring to, Clay. Social media is a broad application and poorly suited to addressing specific instances about specific people, in my opinion. I don't want to sweep your criticism under the carpet, but this thread is a discussion of RTPK. People will refer to this thread for weeks or months and have to sort through these messages looking for the specific information they need regarding RTPK. I would recommend taking up your issue with the specific support people you are having an issue with. If you don't get the resolution you desire, I would recommend connecting with Michael Glutting at Javad GNSS. If you feel you need to vent your frustrations on the message board, I'd recommend starting a new thread, perhaps under General Surveying. Javad has never shied away from open dialogue.
 

arkie

New Member
Can anyone who is using RTPK on the standard LS (i.e. NOT the LS-Plus) let us know how it is functioning on the less optimal hardware? Thanks.
 
Can anyone who is using RTPK on the standard LS (i.e. NOT the LS-Plus) let us know how it is functioning on the less optimal hardware? Thanks.
I've used RTPK on multiple sites in the past 2-3 weeks and have been very pleased with the ability to 'check' my partial RTK results before leaving a point. I have had sporadic problems getting it to work when I'm using my RTN for corrections (sometimes I get a "cannot produce vector" or some similar message), but generally I've been very pleased and it's been a productivity increase. Can't wait to use it with my LS+ and T3, which I hope to have soon.
 
Can anyone who is using RTPK on the standard LS (i.e. NOT the LS-Plus) let us know how it is functioning on the less optimal hardware? Thanks.
I am using it on the Standard LS, with a T2, using GPS and Glonass, 6 engine firmware, UHF communications with outstanding results!! This firmware on my system performs much better than trying to use the 2 or 6 engine multi constellation firmware with Galileo E1 and Beidou B1 turned on in the T2. Very robust and useful in canopy. It is definitely worth the cost to upgrade when the free trial expires at the end of the month, at least for me. I encourage you to give it a try!! Also I have the Galileo E1 and Beidou B1 turned on in the T2, to use with the RTPK processing.
 

arkie

New Member
How has the inability to use projects started in the release version impacted your use of pre-release? Work around suggestions?
 
I am using it on the Standard LS, with a T2, using GPS and Glonass, 6 engine firmware, UHF communications with outstanding results!! This firmware on my system performs much better than trying to use the 2 or 6 engine multi constellation firmware with Galileo E1 and Beidou B1 turned on in the T2. Very robust and useful in canopy. It is definitely worth the cost to upgrade when the free trial expires at the end of the month, at least for me. I encourage you to give it a try!! Also I have the Galileo E1 and Beidou B1 turned on in the T2, to use with the RTPK processing.
Steve, can you refresh my memory regarding how to turn on Galileo E1 and Beidou B1 for the T2 (makes it a single-frequency receiver for those constellations, right)? I saw discussion about it in one of the other threads, but there seemed to be multiple approaches.
 
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