Phillip Lancaster
Active Member
Why does engine 2 have the same gps and glonass, gal signals as engine 1?
Two engine question
- Thread starter Phillip Lancaster
- Start date
Eugene Aksyonov
Well-Known Member
Can you connect the unit to RAMS so I can look at?
Mark Wheeler
Active Member
Traditional LS: MA state RTN utilizes GPS, Glonas, Galileo and Bedoi. With RTN, under earlier release versions Engine 1 would use GPS, Glonas and Galileo, Engine 2 would use Glonas, Galileo and Bedoi. I am currently working on pre-release .429. Bedoi is now greyed out and not used or selectable in both the 2 Engine and 6 Engine (4 constellation) solutions. And as note above, from the chart appears to select the same signals (I may not understand what is going on behind the scenes) for Engine 1 and Engine 2, not including BDS in either. I sent a project file to support for unit 479 (Test 429) with various attempts between the different setup packages. Just to note: 3 weeks ago BDS was being utilized with this setup. This week not so.
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Eugene Aksyonov
Well-Known Member
Hi Mark,
Dark grayed Beidou means that LS doesn't decode beidou corrections from your base. Usually, it meant that RTN doesn't broadcast beidou corrections.
If you sure it does, then set unit to RAMS, I will check it out.
Regards,
Dark grayed Beidou means that LS doesn't decode beidou corrections from your base. Usually, it meant that RTN doesn't broadcast beidou corrections.
If you sure it does, then set unit to RAMS, I will check it out.
Regards,
Eugene Aksyonov
Well-Known Member
For example, connect to another NTRIP mount point for checking or even better physical base, if you have one with Galileo and Beidou.
Mark Wheeler
Active Member
Hi Eugene,
I can set it up outdoors for awhile. When is a good time for you to look at it?
Mark
I can set it up outdoors for awhile. When is a good time for you to look at it?
Mark
Phillip Lancaster
Active Member
Eugene. Why does Mark's track the same signals in engine 2 also?
Mark Wheeler
Active Member
Eugene,
I checked recent jobs. On Friday, about 8 miles west of this location I got all 4 constellations. Cannot figure out what BDU is greyed out sometimes, even when it appears to be the best signal at that time.
Mark
I checked recent jobs. On Friday, about 8 miles west of this location I got all 4 constellations. Cannot figure out what BDU is greyed out sometimes, even when it appears to be the best signal at that time.
Mark
Could be that different stations in the RTN have Beidou and some not. So when you go from one location to another availability may change. From the outside looking in, it seems like many RTN's bet on Galileo being the first to be fully implemented and are playing catch-up adding Beidou.
Mark Wheeler
Active Member
MA State RTN is run by Leica. The 4 constellations are available on all the State network Cors. The network is not VRS. 4 Constellations are availbale oon RTCM 3.2 MSM4 (IMAX). At my home location there are only network Cors stations to the south, east and west. I have gotten all 4 at our home before. Today, with two separate tests and restarts the BDS is greyed out and not used, even though they were either the healthiest or 20nd healthiest. Re-starting the unit did not help. One other day, this happed with Glonass. It was greyed out from the solution. At one point Glonas satellytes alligned as the "best signal", but they were boxed out software inclusion. Have not figured out why.
Using the T-2 (other signals turned on) as a base, usable signals (for T2) from all 4 constellations were included in the solution.
Using the T-2 (other signals turned on) as a base, usable signals (for T2) from all 4 constellations were included in the solution.
In the engines setup screen "All the Best" should stay unchecked. This feature should not even be available. It will cause engines to setup identically. Also use Auto Setup Engines from time to time for engines to configure to best signals available.
Mark Wheeler
Active Member
Shawn, all the best was checked. I will uncheck it. Also, I tried this again in the same spot before reading your post and the BDS was not in the solution, but several of the BDS boxes were light grey (selectable). Since BDS had 2 10's and 2 7's, I manually selected the 2 BDS 10's and they incorporated into the solution. The 2 engines again mimicked each other, the 6 engines used different combinations. I will try switching off all the best.
Mark Wheeler
Active Member
I changed "all the best" to "system based" and clicked auto setup reqularly. In general that elimated the duplicate Engine 1 and 2 setups. Should I also check "no same frequency"?
I noticed that the GPS looked the same on Engine 1 and Engine 2. Each engine selected GPS & Galileo, Engine 2 selected GPS and BDS. No one picked Glonas, even though it looked better than Galileo. Manually some of the other signals could be selected.
I noticed that the GPS looked the same on Engine 1 and Engine 2. Each engine selected GPS & Galileo, Engine 2 selected GPS and BDS. No one picked Glonas, even though it looked better than Galileo. Manually some of the other signals could be selected.
Glonass is low man on the totem pole right now, i think. If the engines can get all the signals they need without Glonass, that's how they'll configure themselves.
Mark Wheeler
Active Member
I gave it another shot after supper. This time BDS was greyed out again and unselectable. GPS, Glonas & Galileo were used. Per the strength charts BDS was 2nd best. Like this morning BDS was excluded from the solution. At a different time today, all 4 were used. The decision to exclude BDS "seems" to be made at the time the machine is turned on, and does not necessarily change as the the sat positions get better or worse.
Phillip Lancaster
Active Member
I don't have the check boxes. Just all the best or system based under strategy. Am I looking in the wrong spot?
Phillip Lancaster
Active Member
Why are some signals greyed out when auto-setup is selected?
Eugene Aksyonov
Well-Known Member
Let me repeat how that works:
Rover is receiving all signals that were enabled in Systems & Signals Tracking settings:
But not all systems goes for RTK calculation. Every RTK Engine has limitations related to the total number of the satellites broadcasting the measurements per signal and to the total number of the signals. Usually there are more Satellites who broadcast the signals than we can fit into single engine. So we select the best systems and signals according to the two strategies: "System Based" and "All The Best"
and some additional settings as "No Same Frequency" and Using AltBOC signals:
In background we do estimate and rate signals according certain quality parameters such as number of sat vehicles who broadcast signals and their presence in corrections decoded by our rover, frequency allocation, signal structure. So finally you see them on the screen for review and modifications if you wand override auto selection method.
Now we have two strategies to select the best signals for RTK.
"System Based" strategy assigns signals from the different systems to the different engines. It is preferable because result of RTK has better confidence in the real Fix due to independence of signals. So for 2Eng firmware package we use all signals that we can according to "No Same Frequency" and "AltBOC" settings from GPS and GAL systems and if limit of signals is not exceeded then we fit all the Best signals from BDS and then GLO. Sequence is important and this is why GLO is usually may not fit into the limited number. For the second engine we do the same but GPS + BDS are preferable now.
For 6Eng we select per engine (1) GPS+GLO , (2) GLO+GAL, (3) GAL+BDS, (4) BDS+GPS, (5) BDS+GLO, (6) GPS+GAL,
For 4Eng we select per engine (1) GPS+ OtherBest(GLO-GAL-BDS), (2) GLO+ OtherBest(GPS-GAL-BDS), (3) GAL+ OtherBest(GPS-GLO-BDS), (4) BDS+ OtherBest(GPS-GLO-GAL)
"All The Best" strategy is the simplest and what it is doing it assigns all the best signals among all systems. Sequence of signals selection is GPS-GLO-GAL-BDS. This strategy may be used in open sky, but should not be used under canopy for sure. Avoid this strategy or use it if you know what you are doing.
Also some general options are affecting on signal selection strategies:
"No Same Frequency" - excludes simultaneous use of signals allocated in same frequency slot per System. This improves RTK solution;
"Use AltBOC Galileo/Beidou" - are wide band signals that can be preferred for theoretical usage in RTK, but we disable them by default in sake of saving CPU resources in Processing. You may try it to see any improvements in speed of fixing and stability of the fix. Also there were some issues in broadcasting of these signals, so they are off by default, as I mentioned.
Now, when we have real Base or RTN base we have deal with corrections that base broadcasts and we receive then and decode by Rover. Usually this are MSM3, MSM4 sets of messages. When we ordered this signals from Base we expect them all be converted to RTCM messages and broadcast. In fact the physical base may not able to receive due to Antenna or RF part, for example, E6 frequencies diapason. If this happen then our Rover will mark all absent signals by dark grey and disable them for selection. No reasons to calculate RTK if there are no differential data. If whole system is not available then whole BDS will not be allowed for selection.
Of course we may have some bugs
but, hopefully, this shadows the light on the subject?
Regards,
Rover is receiving all signals that were enabled in Systems & Signals Tracking settings:
But not all systems goes for RTK calculation. Every RTK Engine has limitations related to the total number of the satellites broadcasting the measurements per signal and to the total number of the signals. Usually there are more Satellites who broadcast the signals than we can fit into single engine. So we select the best systems and signals according to the two strategies: "System Based" and "All The Best"
and some additional settings as "No Same Frequency" and Using AltBOC signals:
In background we do estimate and rate signals according certain quality parameters such as number of sat vehicles who broadcast signals and their presence in corrections decoded by our rover, frequency allocation, signal structure. So finally you see them on the screen for review and modifications if you wand override auto selection method.
Now we have two strategies to select the best signals for RTK.
"System Based" strategy assigns signals from the different systems to the different engines. It is preferable because result of RTK has better confidence in the real Fix due to independence of signals. So for 2Eng firmware package we use all signals that we can according to "No Same Frequency" and "AltBOC" settings from GPS and GAL systems and if limit of signals is not exceeded then we fit all the Best signals from BDS and then GLO. Sequence is important and this is why GLO is usually may not fit into the limited number. For the second engine we do the same but GPS + BDS are preferable now.
For 6Eng we select per engine (1) GPS+GLO , (2) GLO+GAL, (3) GAL+BDS, (4) BDS+GPS, (5) BDS+GLO, (6) GPS+GAL,
For 4Eng we select per engine (1) GPS+ OtherBest(GLO-GAL-BDS), (2) GLO+ OtherBest(GPS-GAL-BDS), (3) GAL+ OtherBest(GPS-GLO-BDS), (4) BDS+ OtherBest(GPS-GLO-GAL)
"All The Best" strategy is the simplest and what it is doing it assigns all the best signals among all systems. Sequence of signals selection is GPS-GLO-GAL-BDS. This strategy may be used in open sky, but should not be used under canopy for sure. Avoid this strategy or use it if you know what you are doing.
Also some general options are affecting on signal selection strategies:
"No Same Frequency" - excludes simultaneous use of signals allocated in same frequency slot per System. This improves RTK solution;
"Use AltBOC Galileo/Beidou" - are wide band signals that can be preferred for theoretical usage in RTK, but we disable them by default in sake of saving CPU resources in Processing. You may try it to see any improvements in speed of fixing and stability of the fix. Also there were some issues in broadcasting of these signals, so they are off by default, as I mentioned.
Now, when we have real Base or RTN base we have deal with corrections that base broadcasts and we receive then and decode by Rover. Usually this are MSM3, MSM4 sets of messages. When we ordered this signals from Base we expect them all be converted to RTCM messages and broadcast. In fact the physical base may not able to receive due to Antenna or RF part, for example, E6 frequencies diapason. If this happen then our Rover will mark all absent signals by dark grey and disable them for selection. No reasons to calculate RTK if there are no differential data. If whole system is not available then whole BDS will not be allowed for selection.
Of course we may have some bugs
but, hopefully, this shadows the light on the subject?Regards,
John Thompson
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that explanation, Eugene. There is an option to Reset Engines at Start. It seems to me like it might be good to have the option to Auto Setup at Start also. I've noticed that many times I will start a shot in the open, no canopy, and it will collect 10 epochs or less, and then it gets hung up until I press Auto Setup, then it quickly gets going collecting again. Probably the "best" signals have changed since the last time engines were setup.
David M. Simolo
Well-Known Member
Awesome reply Eugene. Thanks for taking the time