Cogo, Shift or Translate?

[Nate The Surveyor]

SHIFT. (bad nomenclature, as we also have another, called REVERSE SHIFT, that backs in the base position) So, I suggest we call it TRANSLATE. (To keep us from getting confused)

I would have used it the other day, but I found 2 TWO items there. SHIFT and MOVE.

(I'm not too sure yet about MOVE, but it seems it can move geodetic points!)

And, here we first are prompted to select the points to be shifted. That's all fine.
Then, we are prompted for the
Northing Shift,
Easting Shift,
Elevation Shift.

So, to do this, we have to FIRST prepare by subtracting the Coords, while in the field. With mosquitos, and nosey neighbors, and whatever distractions we have. Not good.

So, now we have another button to the right, that allows you to select 2 points.

Ahhhh, Jim Frame, here it is. This is what you were looking for.

I'd even go along with a combined one, much like the align command, in autocad.

You select A-B, and you select C-D, and it asks if you would like to scale it too. Y/N and, you also can select Modify Elev to? Y/N? A check box would be fine.

If you select YES to scale, it rotates, scales, and translates in one. And, IF you tell it NO to scale, then it makes a mid point between A-C, and a mid point between B-D. These are placed on top of each other.
And, A-C bearing, is equal to B-D bearing. Since you used a mid point, it also can modify the average elevation of the group of coords, being translated.


Now, the only useful thing more that comes to mind, is to allow a minor utility, to produce point groupings. Right now, I leave the office, with points 1-15 is an old survey. And, the neighbors deed is 20-30. And, number 50-100 is an old survey.
These 3 groups are now called (old survey1) and (wilson deed 20-30) and (902-jones survey50-100)

I carry with me the point groupings, with a worksheet.


So, we can GRAB these groups, for use in
ROTATE
TRANSLATE
SCALE
and
ALIGN (rotate, translate, scale combo)

This now lets us put bogus coord systems, on to the actual location, in the field. Seems like a GOOD WORK FLOW tool.

Instead of selecting the point numbers, we select the GROUP name. Keeps us from fat fingered blunders.

What thinkest thou?

N

 

[Matt Johnson]

Survey coordinates cannot be Moved, Shifted or Rotated with the CoGo functions. If you select a survey point with one of these functions, it will create design coordinates for that point that will be attached to the survey point.

Nate, you can use the filters to limit the displayed points to your point groups. See https://support.javad.com/index.php?threads/localization-help.1457/

 

[Matt Johnson]

Also it is easier and more convenient to import a deed as a polyline from a .dwg file. It is also possible to import it both as csv and as a polyline if you wish to have imported point descriptions associated with the polyline. With the plotted deed being a polyline, you can just select it as an "Alignment" in the CoGo functions so that it can be Shifted or Rotated.

 

[Nate The Surveyor]

You said "If you select a survey point with one of these functions, it will create design coordinates for that point that will be attached to the survey point."


Laying awake and thinking about this...

 

[Matt Johnson]

Each point can have up to 5 coordinates in its database entry: design, survey, survey origin, base station and base station origin coordinates. When staking a point you have the option to stake either the design or survey coordinate.

 

[Nate The Surveyor]

I can see a problem here. Maybe. I have thought about it for a while.

I have found a monument, in a clump of trees. I decided to tie it with D/D intersection, from 2 shot points. The rebar is actually overgrown into the tree. There is supposed to be another monument, some 30 feet away, to the north. I tell the LS to STAKE the rebar, in the overgrown tree trunk. I walk north, (estimating the bearing) and use the metal detector, digging out the next monument. USING the found rebar, in the tree clump, as the point number that I am staking.
I then tie the NEXT marker, with a field observation. FORGETTING that I am in stakeout mode.

So, then, this second point, BECOMES the field tie, for the point 30 feet away.

The issue that comes up, is that we often, use this method, to search for the next monument. Have been doing this for years. (stake a previous point, while looking for a certain brg and dist, from that last point)

So, now, we have 2 coords, in the data base, with the same point number, that are in FACT 30' feet apart, but show to the same point in the LS? How would we separate these coords, into 2 pairs of coords, in the field?

This is carry over training, from the TDS and Carlson Data collectors, which I have used both. TDS alot more than Carlson. But, I can see the value of some sort of WARNING, or question, the LS asks, "Do you wish to make a new coord, in the field work group?" (we have search points, way up in the 500 pts number range) and we have field ties, starting at One.

So, it gives us this option, and warning at this junction. Of course, we could use ACCEPT AS, but if we accidentally hit the wrong button... and did not catch it, and went on working, I can see several hours of struggle, due to a minor wrong button push. I'm trying to think this through, for the benefit of others, who have to learn stuff.

N

 

[Matt Johnson]

Nate, there is already a clear prompt to choose between the design and survey coordinate when selecting a point that has both coordinates:

 

[Nate The Surveyor]

OK, so we could actually accidentally have survey points, and design points, a mile apart?
(The little pop up above, will probably solve it) but, it still makes me wonder.
N

 

[Matt Johnson]

There is no limitation on how far apart they can be. The purpose of a point being able to have both survey and design coordinates is so that users can have a record of their staked design points if they desire. You can also choose to stored the staked design point as a new point with the Accept As whitebox option.

 

[Nate The Surveyor]

OK, thanks! I think it will be ok, But, if a staked point is a long ways from it's design point, it would be good to have a flag there too.
N