Okay. That's the same system I use, exactly.
How far is the distance between the T2 base and 404 radio at your set up?
How far is the distance between the T2 base and 404 radio at your set up?
Noisy site
- Thread starter Bruce Dawson
- Start date
Bruce Dawson
Active Member
Shawn, I typically don't have them more than 15 feet apart.
Excellent. Bear with me, just checking all the boxes.
Nate The Surveyor
Well-Known Member
You know, there are a bunch of more qualified folk here, than I am. But, as a guy that starts with the less technical, and proceeds to the more advanced, that I cannot fix, I say, buy a good quality volt tester. ESV they are called Expanded Scale Voltmeter. And, I'd check the battery voltage, while things are going down. Then, I'd check all wires. Especially corrosion in the fuse connection, and in all the connections. Maybe even change the wires. I have one wire right now, on another device that works intermittently. The wire is BROKEN in the middle. If I bend the wire just right, the device works. If not, no.
Then, ASSUMING all of that is good, look for a short in the antenna wire. Put it in continuity mode. Connect the probe to the middle wire, to the middle wire, where the antenna goes. Slowly flex the wire. Do the same for the other wire. Then, be sure there is NO short between them. Bending and flexing the wire. These wires can take a real beating, in the wind. Check all you can. IF you are not following what I'm saying, maybe even go to a local radio shop, that fixes CB radios, or such like. Ham Radio guys or the like. Meddle with it. Find it. Get back in the "good".
Best of luck!
N
PS, I just read that you don't have them more than 15' apart.... I think it is supposed to me MORE than 20', not more than 100'.
Then, ASSUMING all of that is good, look for a short in the antenna wire. Put it in continuity mode. Connect the probe to the middle wire, to the middle wire, where the antenna goes. Slowly flex the wire. Do the same for the other wire. Then, be sure there is NO short between them. Bending and flexing the wire. These wires can take a real beating, in the wind. Check all you can. IF you are not following what I'm saying, maybe even go to a local radio shop, that fixes CB radios, or such like. Ham Radio guys or the like. Meddle with it. Find it. Get back in the "good".
Best of luck!
N
PS, I just read that you don't have them more than 15' apart.... I think it is supposed to me MORE than 20', not more than 100'.
Bruce Dawson
Active Member
Nate that is good advice. Kind of makes me wonder when things seem to be fine for a couple hours, then turn to crap. Perhaps the battery? I have a voltmeter, and will try that if nothing else comes up. I have another job tomorrow morning where I need to hit a couple of mons more than a thousand feet away.
20 feet? Well, I have always kept them closer together. Did not have problems before, but heck, can try that too tomorrow.
20 feet? Well, I have always kept them closer together. Did not have problems before, but heck, can try that too tomorrow.
PS, I just read that you don't have them more than 15' apart.... I think it is supposed to me MORE than 20', not more than 100'.
I don't recall this being an issue for Bluetooth between base receiver and radio.
I don't recall this being an issue for Bluetooth between base receiver and radio.
Bruce, you aren't the only one to make this mistake, please see this link I just created:
https://support.javad.com/index.php?threads/bad-fixes-with-stake-out.1684/
Bruce Dawson
Active Member
Wow, Shawn, I didn't realize that was the process! I must say, however, that this is the first time I have seen my unit do that. I usually get good checks without ever hitting the start button. I stakeout to line a lot, and points often also, and I have always been able to navigate to the corner I am finding or setting with no problems (assuming an open sky). I then collect the corner normally (still getting used to the Accept As option in stakeout) and my final points after download are where I expected them.
Nate gave you some very good advice regarding cables. I would also see if the battery is still good. With the radio running for a time and then dropping, I wouldn't guarantee, but would suspect power issues.
It's just that verification doesn't start until you press the start button. So when you want it right, you want verification which means you have to press start. Don't run off of the current fix when you're trapsing through the boogers.
Nate The Surveyor
Well-Known Member
OK, from Page 15, of the Manual for the HPT404BT manual, which is linked below:
http://javad.com/downloads/javadgnss/manuals/hardware/HPT404BT_with_GSM_Operators_Manual.pdf
Down near the bottom of the page:
3. GSM Antenna Installation
Attach the GSM antenna p/n 30-587314-01to the SMA connector marked GSM.
Note:
The GSM and RF antennas should be separated for about 1 meter to avoid the interference of GSM and UHF signals
The greater distance, I mentioned above, is for my High Power Radio HPT135BT
As I think of all the things that can go wrong...
I keep a can of ZRC in my truck. That would be ZERO RESIDUE CLEANER. There are many brands. It provides a fast blast of completely evaporating, cleaning solvent. Clean all your connections with it. Antenna connections. And power cables.
Another thought that came to mind, is to TEST it on the other side of town. I have run into some odd things... maybe somebody was blasting a load of RF at a particular place... but move over 50', and it ran fine. Go back, and it is poor.
Go figure. There is more RF noise out there than ever.
N
http://javad.com/downloads/javadgnss/manuals/hardware/HPT404BT_with_GSM_Operators_Manual.pdf
Down near the bottom of the page:
3. GSM Antenna Installation
Attach the GSM antenna p/n 30-587314-01to the SMA connector marked GSM.
Note:
The GSM and RF antennas should be separated for about 1 meter to avoid the interference of GSM and UHF signals
The greater distance, I mentioned above, is for my High Power Radio HPT135BT
As I think of all the things that can go wrong...
I keep a can of ZRC in my truck. That would be ZERO RESIDUE CLEANER. There are many brands. It provides a fast blast of completely evaporating, cleaning solvent. Clean all your connections with it. Antenna connections. And power cables.
Another thought that came to mind, is to TEST it on the other side of town. I have run into some odd things... maybe somebody was blasting a load of RF at a particular place... but move over 50', and it ran fine. Go back, and it is poor.
Go figure. There is more RF noise out there than ever.
N
Bruce, please check that you the Internal UHF antenna input selected from the UHF Icon>Configuration button:
If you have the external antenna input selected, you must attach the external UHF antenna. If you still have problems after this take a screenshot of the UHF status screen for us.
I doubt the radio battery is the problem. The radio would stop broadcasting completely if the battery voltage drops too low I believe.
If you have the external antenna input selected, you must attach the external UHF antenna. If you still have problems after this take a screenshot of the UHF status screen for us.
I doubt the radio battery is the problem. The radio would stop broadcasting completely if the battery voltage drops too low I believe.
Bruce Dawson
Active Member
Matt I will do that next time. At Nate's suggestion, I checked my cables and found no issues. I also had the battery checked at a local battery shop and they pronounced it to be working fine. I also put my radio further away from the base (about 30 feet). And at Shawn's suggestion I used the internal antenna only. I kept the modulation at DQPSK but held DBPSK in by back pocket in case I had problems.
I need to say that yesterday I had no issues. It was Friday and I visited two job sites, one in a rural area and the other my "problem site" again where there is a large construction project going on nearby, and they did not work on Friday. I had clean frequencies at each site. More and more, I am thinking it's just getting noisy out there.
Thanks again for all the ideas!
Bruce
I need to say that yesterday I had no issues. It was Friday and I visited two job sites, one in a rural area and the other my "problem site" again where there is a large construction project going on nearby, and they did not work on Friday. I had clean frequencies at each site. More and more, I am thinking it's just getting noisy out there.
Thanks again for all the ideas!
Bruce
Nate The Surveyor
Well-Known Member
You said you had your battery checked at a local shop....
That can be a problem.
The way rtk drains the battery, differs from the way a car starter drains it.
And, there are different kinds of batteries. Some are good with long slow curent drain. Others are better for fast and hard.
I always recommend putting your ESV. (Voltmeter) on it, at the end of a session, or the end of a day, or when trouble strikes. This will yield you a look AFTER your poor battery is tired. If you test it an hr after unhooking it, it will have recouperated. This is not what you are looking for. In the order of protocol, checking base battery voltage, is one of the first steps in troubleshooting. And you do it after it is tired.
Ps and preferably while it is still working.
That can be a problem.
The way rtk drains the battery, differs from the way a car starter drains it.
And, there are different kinds of batteries. Some are good with long slow curent drain. Others are better for fast and hard.
I always recommend putting your ESV. (Voltmeter) on it, at the end of a session, or the end of a day, or when trouble strikes. This will yield you a look AFTER your poor battery is tired. If you test it an hr after unhooking it, it will have recouperated. This is not what you are looking for. In the order of protocol, checking base battery voltage, is one of the first steps in troubleshooting. And you do it after it is tired.
Ps and preferably while it is still working.
Last edited:
I'd be cautious about moving the radio too far away. I find that 30 feet is near the limit of the Bluetooth range. If the Bluetooth signal is weak there will be intermittent periods where the radio drops out or you may have trouble with Base/Rover Setup. Displaying the Bluetooth signal strength in Base/Rover Setup is planned for a future update.
I agree with Matt. There is no reason to separate them. I often have my 404BT on the tripod right below the Triumph-2. There is no advantage that I am aware of in keeping the radio some distance from the base receiver.
Jim Campi
Active Member
I have 0 horizontal separation for 99% of my setups. I had a client fabricate the radio mount. It adds 1-2 mm to the total height of the receiver. The motivation for taking the time to fabricate the mount was decreased setup time. I carry a second tripod and antenna but rarely need either.
Attachments
Jim Campi
Active Member
Bruce,
I have had issues where interference has been a problem during parts of the day and clears later however; I have always had a good UHF signal. Does a drop in performance or fix always coincide with a drop in your UHF signal strength? I use the HPT401BT and no problem with signal strength strength at 1000-2000 ft. This is using the flexible antenna at the radio and no external antenna on the LS, relatively flat topography, sub-urban and rural environments.
I have had issues where interference has been a problem during parts of the day and clears later however; I have always had a good UHF signal. Does a drop in performance or fix always coincide with a drop in your UHF signal strength? I use the HPT401BT and no problem with signal strength strength at 1000-2000 ft. This is using the flexible antenna at the radio and no external antenna on the LS, relatively flat topography, sub-urban and rural environments.
Link quality is the most critical metric that you guys need to be concerned about. A 100% link quality means that the rover receiving is receiving and demodulating all the transmitted corrections. When the signal strength becomes weak, the link quality is likely to drop and RTK performance will not be as good.
Bruce Dawson
Active Member
More stuff happening from my personal twilight zone...
Continuing Radio Issues
I was having more issues lately with the radio-connection. I would scan the frequencies, find a nice clean one, get the base running and have no problems for a couple hours. Then I would start losing things. My connection would go from 100% green, to 87% yellow, then red. It would intermittently flash back to 100% green, but would not fix position, then back to red. This was all with the rover just a thousand feet away from the base. It acted like the frequency was being walked on by someone else. This happened in rural areas where there didn't seem to be much activity (but who knows?). Then I noticed what looked like a ham radio antenna on one of the houses. I began to wonder if that could be the issue? Eventually I got the shots I needed.
Flash forward a day or so. I got to a different site and found my battery dead. This was a battery with maybe 4 hours on it after a full charge. I hooked up the base to my truck battery and had a 3 hour section with no issues. I took the battery to a battery shop, they tested it and found it was okay. I talked with the guy a bit and he asked what it was used for. As soon as I said GPS he nodded his head and told me that batteries get bad after about a year with them. I bought a new battery and will test it out today. Could it be that the battery was only good at full power for a couple of hours and then it began to sputter out? We will see.
Positioning Issue
On a different note, and perhaps related, I got some strange results on that site using the truck battery hookup. This was a site I had been to previously, about a year ago. I had found some existing corners then, tied some topo features like fences, etc. and was back to set new property corners for a newly adjusted parcel. I setup on my base rebar from before, checked into a found corner (looked good) then began to set rebar. My first corner was like 6 feet west from where I had set a lath for it's location a year ago. Same with the next 3. The new corners were suppose to be about 3 feet west from one of those previously tied fences, but they were more like 9 feet today. When I got back to the office and downloaded, the points landed right where they were suppose to in the drawing, 3 feet west of the fence! I looked at the coordinates for my base and found that the numbers for the rebar did not match the base numbers by 6 feet. How did that happen? My process was this: I chose the rebar coordinate "20" from last years work in the Start Base screen. I stored is as a new point "Base20" and started the base. This is how I have done it since day one. How did the "Base 20" position change and why was my check shot fine?
My head hurts..
Bruce
Continuing Radio Issues
I was having more issues lately with the radio-connection. I would scan the frequencies, find a nice clean one, get the base running and have no problems for a couple hours. Then I would start losing things. My connection would go from 100% green, to 87% yellow, then red. It would intermittently flash back to 100% green, but would not fix position, then back to red. This was all with the rover just a thousand feet away from the base. It acted like the frequency was being walked on by someone else. This happened in rural areas where there didn't seem to be much activity (but who knows?). Then I noticed what looked like a ham radio antenna on one of the houses. I began to wonder if that could be the issue? Eventually I got the shots I needed.
Flash forward a day or so. I got to a different site and found my battery dead. This was a battery with maybe 4 hours on it after a full charge. I hooked up the base to my truck battery and had a 3 hour section with no issues. I took the battery to a battery shop, they tested it and found it was okay. I talked with the guy a bit and he asked what it was used for. As soon as I said GPS he nodded his head and told me that batteries get bad after about a year with them. I bought a new battery and will test it out today. Could it be that the battery was only good at full power for a couple of hours and then it began to sputter out? We will see.
Positioning Issue
On a different note, and perhaps related, I got some strange results on that site using the truck battery hookup. This was a site I had been to previously, about a year ago. I had found some existing corners then, tied some topo features like fences, etc. and was back to set new property corners for a newly adjusted parcel. I setup on my base rebar from before, checked into a found corner (looked good) then began to set rebar. My first corner was like 6 feet west from where I had set a lath for it's location a year ago. Same with the next 3. The new corners were suppose to be about 3 feet west from one of those previously tied fences, but they were more like 9 feet today. When I got back to the office and downloaded, the points landed right where they were suppose to in the drawing, 3 feet west of the fence! I looked at the coordinates for my base and found that the numbers for the rebar did not match the base numbers by 6 feet. How did that happen? My process was this: I chose the rebar coordinate "20" from last years work in the Start Base screen. I stored is as a new point "Base20" and started the base. This is how I have done it since day one. How did the "Base 20" position change and why was my check shot fine?
My head hurts..
Bruce