problem LS+

giulio

Member
Good morning, I continue to have problems with my Triumph ls+, the modem with the sim connects to the internet once out of 6. Today I tried to detect a strongpoint with Ntrip connection from a regional Gnss, GPS, Galileo, Glonass and Beidou station (about 29 km away), despite being in the open sky and with more than 25 satellites in view I was unable to fix (few epochs fixed and about 30 cm from the correct position, which approximately corresponds to that of the RTPK position) I don't understand the because of these difficulties. Furthermore, despite having selected: not same frequency, the variety counter does not increase. I attach screenshots of the points detected.
 

Attachments

  • 20230926-14.29.31_00671_Satellites1.png
    20230926-14.29.31_00671_Satellites1.png
    27.4 KB · Views: 114
  • 20230926-14.29.34_00671_Satellites1.png
    20230926-14.29.34_00671_Satellites1.png
    21.5 KB · Views: 105
  • 20230926-14.29.38_00671_Satellites1.png
    20230926-14.29.38_00671_Satellites1.png
    24.2 KB · Views: 110
  • 20230926-14.29.24_00671_Gnss_Status.png
    20230926-14.29.24_00671_Gnss_Status.png
    17.9 KB · Views: 111
  • 20230926-14.29.43_00671_Satellites1.png
    20230926-14.29.43_00671_Satellites1.png
    23.7 KB · Views: 120
  • 20230926-14.29.59_00671_RTK_Engines.png
    20230926-14.29.59_00671_RTK_Engines.png
    18.1 KB · Views: 120
  • 20230926-14.30.08_00671_Receive_Corrections.png
    20230926-14.30.08_00671_Receive_Corrections.png
    23.5 KB · Views: 121
  • 20230926-14.31.04_00671_Gnss_Status.png
    20230926-14.31.04_00671_Gnss_Status.png
    18.1 KB · Views: 117
  • 20230926-14.37.41_00671_Auto_Setup_Strategy.png
    20230926-14.37.41_00671_Auto_Setup_Strategy.png
    11.5 KB · Views: 113
  • 20230926-14.42.05_COLLECT_GNSS.png
    20230926-14.42.05_COLLECT_GNSS.png
    31.4 KB · Views: 110
  • 20230926-14.41.25_COLLECT_GNSS.png
    20230926-14.41.25_COLLECT_GNSS.png
    25.3 KB · Views: 114
  • 20230926-14.41.17_COLLECT_GNSS.png
    20230926-14.41.17_COLLECT_GNSS.png
    29.9 KB · Views: 109
  • 20230926-14.42.12_COLLECT_GNSS.png
    20230926-14.42.12_COLLECT_GNSS.png
    31.9 KB · Views: 109
  • 20230926-14.42.14_3.png
    20230926-14.42.14_3.png
    25.7 KB · Views: 111

Wes Hand

Active Member
Sounds like you are having 2 issues correct? One being the actual internet connection and the second you are not getting good fixed data on a RTN.

If I have assumed correctly for issue one I would either reinsert my SIM card or move it to the other SIM card slot. Should have 2 on the LS+. One of my LS rovers was acting up and I changed to SIM card 2 slot and problem solved.

Issue 2…I have never been a fan of jfield on a RTN. It has always been hit or miss. I’ve use Trimble vrs, GEO++ and MAC networks and they all at times work great and then like you I will be in the wide ass open and get an epoch here and there. If you can change your mount point to receive only gps/glonass you might get to rocking but with no variety.
 

Wes Hand

Active Member
I read your post again….18 miles is a long way for single baseline. That might be the issue on a RTN. How close was the RTPK because I’d lean on that over RTk at that distance
 

giulio

Member
Thanks for the replies. For the SIM I have tried several times to reverse the slot but the problem remains and I don't understand why sometimes it connects to the internet and sometimes not. For the 18 mile distance discrepancy, with my other rover (Navcom 3040 which only has 66 channels and is GPS and Glonass only) it fixes quickly with no problems. I repeat, among other things, that I was completely in the open sky.
 

Matt Johnson

Well-Known Member
5PLS
The signal selection for the RTK engines in your screenshot is poor. All four engines are configure with the same signals so you are essentially only using one RTK engine. Signal Variety is a measure of how differently the signals are configured for each engine. Since you have all 4 engines configure the same way, it will not increase beyond 0.

The optimal configuration is with each engine configured to use 2 signals for each constellation and each signal should be used not more than twice so that all engines are different. Here is an example:


RTK-V6-PLUS_20220331-10.27.28 (1).png


To configure each engine, long press on it. Make sure not to press Auto Setup Engines and make sure Auto Setup RTK engines is Off once you configure your RTK engines so that the configuration does not get changed.

QUICKSETUP-OPTIONS_20230927-10.39.05.png


Also you want to set each engine to be able to use 60 signals. This setting is found in Setup > General > RTK/DGPS > Advanced RTK Settings > Engine 1 > Max Settings. After changing it to 60 press Apply to All. This will allow the RTK engines to use more signals and will improve performance.

RTK-ENGINE-PARAMS_20230928-08.55.14.png


In my tests I found that this configuration resulted in 5 times faster RTK performance and it will result in Signal Variety increasing much faster and to a higher level.

The cause of the cellular modems not connecting to the internet or mount point is typically poor cellular service.
 
Last edited:

giulio

Member
Thanks Matt, I pressed automatic configuration, I thought that having also selected the "not same frequency" option, the motors I would choose would be the optimal configuration with different frequencies, this method worked very well with the t3 base and rover ls+. I tried not using the auto set up engine button and choosing the frequencies and constellations myself, it seems to work better. But is there a system that optimizes the choice of engines based on the corrections? I saw that glonass was more of an impediment than an asset: I turned off glonass biases and it's a little better
 

Matt Johnson

Well-Known Member
5PLS
But is there a system that optimizes the choice of engines based on the corrections?

Auto Setup Engines chooses the signals based upon common signals between the base and rover but it does not configure the engines in the optimal strategy that I described.
 

giulio

Member
But what is the option for: "No Same Frequency"? in Autosetup Strategy.
 

Attachments

  • Immagine WhatsApp 2023-09-27 ore 20.42.19.jpg
    Immagine WhatsApp 2023-09-27 ore 20.42.19.jpg
    188 KB · Views: 110

giulio

Member
Matt, my opinion "no same frequency" should be the automatic option to ensure that the 4 engines do not use the same frequencies and constellations (what you suggest doing manually) which however does not work well with the current networks (I think because these do not have all the frequencies like a Javad base and rover). It would be nice if the Javad group provided a complete guide to be certain of these parameters of which we find no trace in the pdf or online manuals and with which we continue to waste time in our random attempts, with interpretations that are not certain as reported at the link:
https ://support.javad.com/index.php?threads/settings-for-tls-t3.4459/
 

nusouthsc

Active Member
The signal selection for the RTK engines in your screenshot is poor. All four engines are configure with the same signals so you are essentially only using one RTK engine. Signal Variety is a measure of how differently the signals are configured for each engine. Since you have all 4 engines configure the same way, it will not increase beyond 0.

The optimal configuration is with each engine configured to use 2 signals for each constellation and each signal should be used not more than twice so that all engines are different. Here is an example:


View attachment 13208

To configure each engine, long press on it. Make sure not to press Auto Setup Engines and make sure Auto Setup RTK engines is Off once you configure your RTK engines so that the configuration does not get changed.

View attachment 13210

Also you want to set each engine to be able to use 60 signals. This setting is found in Setup > General > RTK/DGPS > Advanced RTK Settings > Engine 1 > Max Settings. After changing it to 60 press Apply to All. This will allow the RTK engines to use more signals and will improve performance.

View attachment 13211

In my tests I found that this configuration resulted in 5 times faster RTK performance and it will result in Signal Variety increasing much faster and to a higher level.

The cause of the cellular modems not connecting to the internet or mount point is typically poor cellular service.
Matt,
My Engine Parameters look a little different than yours. Am I in the wrong location?
 

Attachments

  • Engine_1_Parameters.png
    Engine_1_Parameters.png
    15.2 KB · Views: 129

Wes Hand

Active Member
I went through and attempted to make mine look like your screen shot. I have auto setup off and signals set to 60. Screenshot is engine 1. When I tap set my signals appear to be on other columns than the one I selected. Does the top line of signals correspond to A, second row with B???
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    1.8 MB · Views: 131

giulio

Member
I did various tests and I noticed that by setting the max signal to 60 the engine has difficulty fixing by setting 40 it worked better, I'll try asking support and see what they reply.
 

giulio

Member
I sent an email to support asking if they can provide us with clarification, if so I will update you
 

Matt Johnson

Well-Known Member
5PLS
I did various tests and I noticed that by setting the max signal to 60 the engine has difficulty fixing by setting 40 it worked better,

How long did your test run? To make test something like this, the test should run at least 12 hours for each setting so that the satellite geometry changes many times otherwise there is not enough data to make any conclusions. When I originally tested this engine configuration strategy I collected over 10,000 points and the test ran close to 2 days. Here are photos of locations and the statistics. The Signal Variety parameter was set 2.1 in this test so it would require that all 4 engines fix before the points is stored.


1648737017162.png



1648737047204.png


1648737067291.png


If it struggled to fix when at a monument when you had it set to 60, my hypothesis would be that a signal was add to the engines that was not providing good data.

I'll try asking support
As far as I know, I am not only support person who has ever investigated or tested this.
 
Last edited:

giulio

Member
In your test were you receiving corrections from a Javad base? I think that as you hypothesized, with corrections from other brands the signals there are more problems and it seems to me that a value lower than 60 is better. I will do further tests
 

Matt Johnson

Well-Known Member
5PLS
In your test were you receiving corrections from a Javad base? I think that as you hypothesized, with corrections from other brands the signals there are more problems and it seems to me that a value lower than 60 is better. I will do further tests

Yes it was with a Javad base with very short baseline between the base and LS+.
 
Top