Using the T1M and 35W radio as repeater

Phillip Lancaster

Active Member
Nate. You need to embrace your local cell network and you will drop all the warm and fuzzy feelings about UHF. That is if you have a decent network. I normally work in an area that has cell. Every so often I have to use UHF and the whole time I think to myself that I'd rather be on cell. It just flows better.
 

toivo1037

Active Member
There are some minimum separations between the radios that are recommended to prevent data loss:

View attachment 6670
What I was thinking of something along the lines of using as a reporter halfs the broadcast time, as you are also receiving, so your corrections are coming at a slower pace.

I may be mistaken though.

Another thing, can it be on the same freq, or does the repeater have to receive on one frequency (channel) and broadcast on another?

I think what we all want to do is if we are running out of radio from a base, is just to toss up the repeater and have it extend the radio range without messing around with anything else. It isn't as easy as that.. yet.
 

Matt Johnson

Well-Known Member
5PLS
What I was thinking of something along the lines of using as a reporter halfs the broadcast time, as you are also receiving, so your corrections are coming at a slower pace.
The repeater will work at 1 Hz which can be upsampled to 5 Hz. A repeater can't be used with corrections broadcast at 5 Hz but this isn't an issue with upsampling.

Another thing, can it be on the same freq, or does the repeater have to receive on one frequency (channel) and broadcast on another?
It works on the same frequency.

I think what we all want to do is if we are running out of radio from a base, is just to toss up the repeater and have it extend the radio range without messing around with anything else. It isn't as easy as that.. yet.
It is this easy now already. You just need to configure the repeater one time and it will still continue to operate with that configuration after turning it off and then back on again. If you don't change the frequency that the base is broadcasting at then you only need to turn the repeater on and it will start working.
 
The repeater will work at 1 Hz which can be upsampled to 5 Hz. A repeater can't be used with corrections broadcast at 5 Hz but this isn't an issue with upsampling.



It works on the same frequency.



It is this easy now already. You just need to configure the repeater one time and it will still continue to operate with that configuration after turning it off and then back on again. If you don't change the frequency that the base is broadcasting at then you only need to turn the repeater on and it will start working.
Matt, for those of us using the 35 watt at the base with the T2, will the 401BT be able to be used as a repeater at this time?
 

Nate The Surveyor

Well-Known Member
Nate. You need to embrace your local cell network and you will drop all the warm and fuzzy feelings about UHF. That is if you have a decent network. I normally work in an area that has cell. Every so often I have to use UHF and the whole time I think to myself that I'd rather be on cell. It just flows better.
No local network.
I'm on my own, for corrections.

N
 

Nate The Surveyor

Well-Known Member
Yes, corrections can be cellular.
And, even handy, at times.
Fully 50% of my jobs have places "where cell dont go" but radio is fine.
24" pines.
 

Darren Clemons

Well-Known Member
With Matthew Sibole's help, I finally think we have my HPT435BT radio working as a repeater and based on everything I've read, there seems to be no reason to not use it as a repeater all the time.

Can anyone who uses this setup (T1M/HPT435BT) share some pointers/tips? Does the 164' minimum distance "have" to be closely followed? There are certain places here and there we go to that it could be difficult to get separation.

If the T1M and the 35w radio are close - about the 165'+- - do I select the very lowest output power for the 1w radio 30(15)?

If somehow the 1w gets set and started at full power 1000(30) and the 35w is set up about 200' away, what could we expect to happen? Radio probably would start going out at the limit of the 1w and the 35w not pickup and properly repeat" the signal I would think.
 

Clay Davidson

Active Member
With Matthew Sibole's help, I finally think we have my HPT435BT radio working as a repeater and based on everything I've read, there seems to be no reason to not use it as a repeater all the time.

Can anyone who uses this setup (T1M/HPT435BT) share some pointers/tips? Does the 164' minimum distance "have" to be closely followed? There are certain places here and there we go to that it could be difficult to get separation.

If the T1M and the 35w radio are close - about the 165'+- - do I select the very lowest output power for the 1w radio 30(15)?

If somehow the 1w gets set and started at full power 1000(30) and the 35w is set up about 200' away, what could we expect to happen? Radio probably would start going out at the limit of the 1w and the 35w not pickup and properly repeat" the signal I would think.
Darren,

When I used yellow brand and repeaters at max base setting i would want to be a minimum of 1000' from my base for the repeter to work properly. If you're trying to get farther as last ng as your rover picks up a good signal at say 3000' it should work.

Mathew Sibole told me that if the 1m is at its lowest setting the repeater could be next to the base.

Let me know what works good if you don't mind. I would like to have mine set up this way.

Hope this helps,

Clay
 

Darren Clemons

Well-Known Member
Darren,

When I used yellow brand and repeaters at max base setting i would want to be a minimum of 1000' from my base for the repeter to work properly. If you're trying to get farther as last ng as your rover picks up a good signal at say 3000' it should work.

Mathew Sibole told me that if the 1m is at its lowest setting the repeater could be next to the base.

Let me know what works good if you don't mind. I would like to have mine set up this way.

Hope this helps,

Clay
Clay,
just wanted to let you know, I have scraped my use of the 35w as a repeater and went back to normal settings. We had mixed results, to say the least. A couple days it did fantastic, but we got everything in prime positions. A base on an extremely high point on the job, the repeater about 3200’ away and the the LS up to another mile away but imagine drawing a straight line from point A(base) through point B (repeater) to get to points C (random Ls shots). In that scenario it worked fine.

At least three other days where we were “all over” the farm we’re on, with many varying distances from both the 1W base radio and 35w repeater, we didn't have very good luck at all. Constant yellow and red showing up on the signal, sometimes very close to the repeater. There seemed to definitely be some overlapping and confusion of signals.

We had an extremely tough spot on some government monuments on Nolin River that were literally in the side of about a 100’ cliff that we tried to get and had a bear of a day. We’d set a base in the best place possible and, as instructed after setting the repeater about 200’ away, set the power of the 1W radio on its lowest setting. We were only about 1000’-1200’ away from the base for the 3 points we needed and didn’t get one single blip of radio on any of them. Now granted, these were extremely difficult conditions and I know that UHF can’t travel “through the ground” but I’ve gotten signal in places like this for years. Two days later, I had changed my 35w radio back to normal settings, sat it right beside my base as usual and went back to the same three points. The radio didn’t hold 100% by any means, but it did hold some signal at all times on all three points and we were able to collect rtk to verify the strictly PPK points I’d gotten previously.

I’ve tried, unsuccessfully, to get someone, anyone to detail out the exact settings, parameters, wattage settings and proper distances for this setup to work at peak performance and no one seems to know. The fact is, I believe it will be variable based on each and every site and what the 1W signal has to go through and subsequently the 35w as well. If you’re in a “perfect storm” kinda place an it’s just “extending” radio link via a pretty straight line, I think it’s great, but in typical rough, rural farm surveys where you’ll be up, over, around and down, cross/crossing over and through the competing signals, I think it may make it worse instead of better. Just my 23 cents worth.

Therefore, as I said, I’ve completely scratched the repeater setup as of now and am pursuing a different cable and antenna all together to try and help with our never ending radio issues. If I have any success with this new setup, I’ll definitely let you know. One or more of the radio, cables or antenna in the “stock” setup with the HPT435BT just aren’t allowing it to achieve reasonable distances in my opinion. (And if anyone’s wondering, all updates are current, all cables are secure - no pinches, crimps or loose connections. We’ve got three different systems and they all act/achieve about the same distances - maximum of 1 mile - if we’re lucky). I’ve said a million times, I wish I could clone whatever radio was in the yellow brands Hiper GA units. Nothing but an internal 1W and we consistently achieved 3 to 5 miles with those little dudes in the same terrain over the same cliffs and hills.
 

Clay Davidson

Active Member
Clay,
just wanted to let you know, I have scraped my use of the 35w as a repeater and went back to normal settings. We had mixed results, to say the least. A couple days it did fantastic, but we got everything in prime positions. A base on an extremely high point on the job, the repeater about 3200’ away and the the LS up to another mile away but imagine drawing a straight line from point A(base) through point B (repeater) to get to points C (random Ls shots). In that scenario it worked fine.

At least three other days where we were “all over” the farm we’re on, with many varying distances from both the 1W base radio and 35w repeater, we didn't have very good luck at all. Constant yellow and red showing up on the signal, sometimes very close to the repeater. There seemed to definitely be some overlapping and confusion of signals.

We had an extremely tough spot on some government monuments on Nolin River that were literally in the side of about a 100’ cliff that we tried to get and had a bear of a day. We’d set a base in the best place possible and, as instructed after setting the repeater about 200’ away, set the power of the 1W radio on its lowest setting. We were only about 1000’-1200’ away from the base for the 3 points we needed and didn’t get one single blip of radio on any of them. Now granted, these were extremely difficult conditions and I know that UHF can’t travel “through the ground” but I’ve gotten signal in places like this for years. Two days later, I had changed my 35w radio back to normal settings, sat it right beside my base as usual and went back to the same three points. The radio didn’t hold 100% by any means, but it did hold some signal at all times on all three points and we were able to collect rtk to verify the strictly PPK points I’d gotten previously.

I’ve tried, unsuccessfully, to get someone, anyone to detail out the exact settings, parameters, wattage settings and proper distances for this setup to work at peak performance and no one seems to know. The fact is, I believe it will be variable based on each and every site and what the 1W signal has to go through and subsequently the 35w as well. If you’re in a “perfect storm” kinda place an it’s just “extending” radio link via a pretty straight line, I think it’s great, but in typical rough, rural farm surveys where you’ll be up, over, around and down, cross/crossing over and through the competing signals, I think it may make it worse instead of better. Just my 23 cents worth.

Therefore, as I said, I’ve completely scratched the repeater setup as of now and am pursuing a different cable and antenna all together to try and help with our never ending radio issues. If I have any success with this new setup, I’ll definitely let you know. One or more of the radio, cables or antenna in the “stock” setup with the HPT435BT just aren’t allowing it to achieve reasonable distances in my opinion. (And if anyone’s wondering, all updates are current, all cables are secure - no pinches, crimps or loose connections. We’ve got three different systems and they all act/achieve about the same distances - maximum of 1 mile - if we’re lucky). I’ve said a million times, I wish I could clone whatever radio was in the yellow brands Hiper GA units. Nothing but an internal 1W and we consistently achieved 3 to 5 miles with those little dudes in the same terrain over the same cliffs and hills.
I had similar results when I tried using the repeater. I totally agree these new narrow band radios suck compared to what we used to use. I am wondering if we used the 35 watt at the base and either a smaller radio as a repeater to get under the hills. Or go with another 35 watt as a repeater. I didn't wanna spend the money to find out. I will say the a high central located spot is ideal but you and I both know that isn't always a real world solution.

Thanks for the reply,

Clay
 
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